Kill Team 2.0

[Squee]

Previously most shots did absolutely no damage. Now crappy guns/attacks at least do chip damage, which feels more satisfying.

Well not really. If Topsy's trying to 4+ autogun a power-armoured model (which he most likely does as a GSC player) he statistically does 0 damage on average. GSC are tough to start with in KT21 - they're not necessarily bad (it's still too early to be certain), but they definitely have a high skillcap, which doesn't help at the start.

I'd recommend trying something simpler - Power Armoured Transhumans of your favourite variety tend to do reasonably well for a start, or maybe the Tyranids, considering what you already have @TopsyKretts.

 

[JawRippa]

Well not really. If Topsy's trying to 4+ autogun a power-armoured model (which he most likely does as a GSC player) he statistically does 0 damage on average.

When making 4 shots the probability of getting a crit and doing at least something is higher then a crit for 3 dice defence roll.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Capping objectives takes a toll on damage output anyway, so far I'm happy with the tradeoff. I never expect anything from these mooks so nothing to be let down by.

Based on some youtube videoes, bloodletters and genestealers are supposed to be strong. I don't want to invest too much time in minis for this game unless my friends will continue playing it. But I have now recently ordered a full kill team of 10 genestealers, so that could prove more powerful. Downside is this looks really boring compared to what I have. All 10 are basically identical. A tiny bit of extra flavour added for stuff like "leader" or some other specialists. With Genestealer Cults, I could mix all sorts of different weapons.

 

[TopsyKretts]

When making 4 shots the probability of getting a crit and doing at least something is higher then a crit for 3 dice defence roll.

Just because statistics are higher doesn't help. As an extreme example, imagine statistics of attack getting a crit is 2%, and statistics of crit on defence is 1%. That's double the chance of crit on attack than defence, your statement is thus true. Still, it could be 98% chance of failing to do anything. Don't remember the rules exactly, but if you can trade 2 successes against 1 crit, that makes it even worse.

I was much more pleased to see heavy weapons do more than possibly 1 kill per game. Used to hit on 6+, which would most likely guarantee a kill (but not 100%). Now, it is much better chance to reliably kill or inflict high damage.

 

[NoOneII.]

What's the weapon profile on your standard mooks praying to the star-emperor?
4 dice, 4+ hit and 2/3 damage I assume?
That's certainly nothing to write home about, but the system has a much better spread of more granular results than "My single Hitroll failed".

But sure, for opening up smurfs rockdrills are better than autopistols.

Also, the rosters in the "Compendium" are kinda bland, overall. I am glad there's something in it for everyone, but they are really barebones.

Lucky me has AdMech and was blessed with a proper Roster in the WD rightaway, so I didn't even bother picking up the Compendium.

 

[TopsyKretts]

They've consulted rule writers of Necromunda.

They get paid per page right?

 

[Squee]

Capping objectives takes a toll on damage output anyway, so far I'm happy with the tradeoff. I never expect anything from these mooks so nothing to be let down by.

Based on some youtube videoes, bloodletters and genestealers are supposed to be strong. I don't want to invest too much time in minis for this game unless my friends will continue playing it. But I have now recently ordered a full kill team of 10 genestealers, so that could prove more powerful. Downside is this looks really boring compared to what I have. All 10 are basically identical. A tiny bit of extra flavour added for stuff like "leader" or some other specialists. With Genestealer Cults, I could mix all sorts of different weapons.

Oh, Pure Genestealer KTs are far from boring, especially when you consider the Equipment options available. (Tip: It's acidmaws, man)

 

[TopsyKretts]

Can they choose between heavy stubber, flamer, webber, grenade launcher, mining laser, shotgun/autogun, boltpistol, chainsword, seismic cannon, webpistol, heavy rock cutter, -saw, -drill, bonesword and hand flamer?

You say they get more interesting by adding equipment. GSC gets more interesting by adding equipment too.

Genestealers are all pretty much identical? You could choose between a few fairly similar close combat options. And as mentioned, the tiny but of extra spice with the leader.

 

[Squee]

Can they choose between heavy stubber, flamer, webber, grenade launcher, mining laser, shotgun/autogun, boltpistol, chainsword, seismic cannon, webpistol, heavy rock cutter, -saw, -drill, bonesword and hand flamer?

You say they get more interesting by adding equipment. GSC gets more interesting by adding equipment too.

Genestealers are all pretty much identical? You could choose between a few fairly similar close combat options. And as mentioned, the tiny but of extra spice with the leader.

Ok, I get your point now. True.
I was referring to how they actually play on the tabletop rather then how they actually look. And gameplay wise they are really fun.
But visually yeah - pretty homogenous and boring. Maybe paint them different colours or something

 

[TopsyKretts]

Yeah, I expect them to be very good, could still be fun, but much less variety than what can be enjoyed by other factions. From looking at the rules alone, should be very similar to bloodletters (decent melee, invulnerable save, move shenanigans).

 

[HorribleHedgehog]

I finally had a look at some of the rosters in the faction compendium. It's pretty barebones as has been said, but a mixed CSM/cultist team seems to have an ok amount of variety to it. I've already got a lot of mutie-y bits for the cultists, so maybe I'll look at getting some CSM too.

 

[Squee]

I finally had a look at some of the rosters in the faction compendium. It's pretty barebones as has been said, but a mixed CSM/cultist team seems to have an ok amount of variety to it. I've already got a lot of mutie-y bits for the cultists, so maybe I'll look at getting some CSM too.

As far as I can tell, the compendium actually is a stop-gap solution to give most factions something at the very start of a new game. A KT21 Index if you will. Slowly but steadily GW is releasing more detailed KillTeams for factions - apart from Krieg (essentially detailed IG) and Kommandos (fancy Orks) there already is a detailed team for Admech in WD 467, and another one is coming out in October WD for 1000 Sons.
The interesting bit is that the detailed variant isn't necessarily better, than the Compendium one - so far teams from Compendium seem a bit more boring, but they can often do things that the bespoke teams can't.

 

[JawRippa]

The interesting bit is that the detailed variant isn't necessarily better, than the Compendium one - so far teams from Compendium seem a bit more boring, but they can often do things that the bespoke teams can't.

Except Imperial Guard is a straight downgrade compared to veterans. Their orders require burning 1CP each, while veterans get orders for free.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Compendium includes almost all options for Genestealer Cult from the previous edition (except Aberrants ). The difference now is that you have to select full fire teams. I have a big mix of minis, but only able to make 1 neopthy and then have to choose between 1 acolyte OR 1 metamorph (same minis are used for both).

 

[NoOneII.]

If the Admech Stuff is the Blueprint, you can expect to get a list that allows individual picks.
The Compendium-Admech is also "2 Fireteams chosen from 5 x vanguard, 5 x radwarrior, 4 x sicarian". The WD-Variation is "10 Folks mixed batch in total, max. 4 Sicarians", roughly.

So i think that's gonna be the samish for everyone.

 

[TopsyKretts]

That means each team will eventually have 2, 3 or more lists to choose from... reminiscent of another game.

 

[Squee]

Except Imperial Guard is a straight downgrade compared to veterans. Their orders require burning 1CP each, while veterans get orders for free.

Not necessarily - you are allowed to take scions in IG team.
And Scions not only have better stats and weapons, but can likewise give 1 order per TP for free, provided the Leader is alive. Plus if you really need to, you're able to give several Orders in one turn, unlike the Veterans. And to top it all off, Scions give you access to all TacOps archetypes, not only Security. So the Compendium IG team definitely has things that are better (in some cases significantly so) than the stuff available to Veteran Guardsmen.

 

[JawRippa]

Not necessarily - you are allowed to take scions in IG team.
And Scions not only have better stats and weapons, but can likewise give 1 order per TP for free, provided the Leader is alive. Plus if you really need to, you're able to give several Orders in one turn, unlike the Veterans. And to top it all off, Scions give you access to all TacOps archetypes, not only Security. So the Compendium IG team definitely has things that are better (in some cases significantly so) than the stuff available to Veteran Guardsmen.

It could as well have been called Scions instead of IG, because veterans are better if you are not taking scions.

 

[Squee]

It could as well have been called Scions instead of IG, because veterans are better if you are not taking scions.

True, but that's besides the point
Point is the Compendium team does have good stuff to offer that's totally unavailable to a similar bespoke team.
And that's true for Compendium Orks as well. They have some neat tricks, that Kommandos simply can't replicate.

 

[NoOneII.]

To me, the fact that the core mechanics of the game are reallyreallyreally good weighs more than the fact that currently certain goldenboys seem to be far above the curve or the direct comparison between List A and List B is wonky.

I am glad I didn't have to buy the Compendium because Admech got their "proper" List first, but if I would've had to buy it I wouldn't have cried my eyes out over it.
And on the other hand it would really suck if my other players would have to wait months till their faction finally gets ANY list, so I am not mad at the compendium.
It feels like a filler, true, but I acknowledge that such a filler was probably just necessary to get everyone on the table quickly. The 20 or so factions are a lot ground to cover in depth.