Kill Teams 2018
- Thread starter Sethmerlin666
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Ok, so, I'm almost done completing my worksheet. A few things I've noted:
Barring combi-weapons, there are exactly 3 profiles in the game who can fire more than 1 weapon in a single Shooting phase (most T'au can have a Markerlight on top of their pulse rifle/carbine/blaster, but those have a special rule that prevents firing another weapon when you use them):
A few loadouts don't make sense as they are stricly worse than other loadouts available to the same unit.
For instance, T'au Shas'ui can take a lot of different combinations of Pulse rifle, Pulse pistol and Markerlight. All of those weapons cost 0 points, so there is no reason to take anything but the Pulse rifle + Pulse pistol + Markerlight loadout.
Another example is the Plague Champion who can replace his Plague knife with a Plaguesword. Both cost 0 points but the sword is strictly better than the knife (same profile but the knife only lets you reroll 1s to wound while the sword lets you reroll all failed wound rolls.)
Am I missing a rule or is having several melee weapons not that great? My understanding of the rules is that you gain no bonus (no +1 Attack for instance) from having several melee weapons and must simply choose one of them for each attack you make.
If I'm correct, then what is the point of a Plague Marine Fighter being allowed to trade their (0 pts) Boltgun for a second (0 pts) Plague knife? Isn't it a straight-up downgade?
Barring combi-weapons, there are exactly 3 profiles in the game who can fire more than 1 weapon in a single Shooting phase (most T'au can have a Markerlight on top of their pulse rifle/carbine/blaster, but those have a special rule that prevents firing another weapon when you use them):
- An Asuryani Dire Avenger Exarch can have two Avenger shuriken catapults
- A Drukhari Sybarite can have a Splinter rifle and a Phantasm grenade launcher
- A T'au MV1 Gun Drone has two Pulse carbines
A few loadouts don't make sense as they are stricly worse than other loadouts available to the same unit.
For instance, T'au Shas'ui can take a lot of different combinations of Pulse rifle, Pulse pistol and Markerlight. All of those weapons cost 0 points, so there is no reason to take anything but the Pulse rifle + Pulse pistol + Markerlight loadout.
Another example is the Plague Champion who can replace his Plague knife with a Plaguesword. Both cost 0 points but the sword is strictly better than the knife (same profile but the knife only lets you reroll 1s to wound while the sword lets you reroll all failed wound rolls.)
Am I missing a rule or is having several melee weapons not that great? My understanding of the rules is that you gain no bonus (no +1 Attack for instance) from having several melee weapons and must simply choose one of them for each attack you make.
If I'm correct, then what is the point of a Plague Marine Fighter being allowed to trade their (0 pts) Boltgun for a second (0 pts) Plague knife? Isn't it a straight-up downgade?
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Ruststalker Princerp is the only unit benefit from having two melee weapons (claw + blades) He had a 3rd weapon but they delete that when 8th hit because .... too lazy to write rule for it lol.
Whilst I completely agree that it makes as much sense as that plague knife costs (ie 0) it's more than likely so that person who has a full unit of plague marines wielding nothing but knives in 40k can play kill team without feeling like they made their models 'wrong' for it
Yeah, I think you are correct, but then it's really not the best way to do it. Our hypothethical 40k player still has built his Plague Marines 'wrong' as he could have had a boltgun for the same point cost. Plus, he will only be able to field 2 of his marines as the dual wielding option is only available to Plague Marine Fighters.
I think it's actually worse for him that the suboptimal option exists: otherwise, he would be able to field those minis as the superior boltgun wielding option (that second knife is not a problem since it gives the mini no bonus, and the boltgun is obviously hidden in their pants or something). This is what I like with the Necrons in KT: they have so few options that my old Necron lord with Warscythe can represent almost anything (I can pretend he is a Flayed one since he has claws, or I can pass him as an Immortal/Deathmark and pretend is scythe is any ranged weapon) I guess it depends on your take on WYSIWYG ^^.
Even stranger is the option for Deathwatch veterans to dual wield power swords (they can replace their free boltgun with a 2 pts power sword and take another power sword on top) as it's more costly than the boltgun + power sword loadout.
Meanwhile, Grey Knights can only take falchions in pair (as in: they can replace their force sword with 2 falchions that cost 1 pt each, but there is no option for a single falchion) while Flayed ones have Flaying claws, Tyranid warriors have boneswords/Grasping talons, etc. why is the Grey knight option not 'falchions' for 2 pts?
It's also very strange that they allow for this kind of things for cross-compatibility reasons but some other things (like Guardsman Medic or Scion with grenade launcher) are not allowed despite existing on the corresponding sprues.
Also, why can a Special Weapons Guardsman with nothing but a lasgun be a Leader or Comms specialist while a regular and otherwise identical Guardsman can't be a Leader and needs a Vox Caster to be a Comms specialist? Making a lowly 5 pts guardsman your Leader looks like a good move gameplay-wise (Leaders are mostly Command points generators and keeping them safe and away from the action seems to be a good strategy, and it also lets you give more useful specialisms to your Sergeants) but it makes zero sense fluff-wise.
I know I may be nitpicking a bit too much, but all of this makes very little sense to me from a design standpoint. It's hard to believe that the same team tresponsible for those beautifully streamlined skirmish rules also wrote those fuzzy and non-sensical datasheets. It reeks of executive meddling.
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My son says he won't play me again if I use Harlequins... Flying clowns that ignore terrain and charge halfway across the board are pretty nasty
Harlequin have weak shooting game and they drop like paper to GK, or really, gun fire.
I think they're fine, your son is over reacting tho. Pistol could use a few buff, Neuro Disruptor stat should be restored to S4 like in codex.
I think they're fine, your son is over reacting tho. Pistol could use a few buff, Neuro Disruptor stat should be restored to S4 like in codex.
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Yeah. The weird thing with pistols is they can't be used on the first turn of combat (you can't use them when you charge and you can't use them if you have been charged this turn) so they are only good for very close range shooting, overwatch fire or prolonged fight). As a result, I don't think that spending points on fancy pistols is a good idea, whether you plan to go shooty or stabby.
Another thing I may have missed: is the models' facing of any relevance in this game? I got the impression from reading the Move phase rules that it would matter, but I didn't find any mention of FoV in the Shooting or Fight phases.
Due to how turn sequence work, it's hillariously easy to outrange the extremely OP (that's what people think) Fusion pistol. And even if you get the chance to shoot ( if you didn't get murdered by gunfire because you shoot last). The accuracy is ork tier 5+, and Harlequin do not gain access to Comm or Sniper.
I think at least pistol should get advance and shoot with no penalty, but with bad BS+ it wouldn't be very useful for Harlequin. Maybe allow pistol to replace one attack. But then a random S8 Damage D6 shot would upset a lot of people, I think pistol are doomed with this ruleset.
The only way I can see pistol work in CC is up the price of Fusion to 5, or a change in stat : reduce damage/AP,
Yes I t think model have no facing in this game, although pivoting the model might be a good way to hide it out of LoS.
I think at least pistol should get advance and shoot with no penalty, but with bad BS+ it wouldn't be very useful for Harlequin. Maybe allow pistol to replace one attack. But then a random S8 Damage D6 shot would upset a lot of people, I think pistol are doomed with this ruleset.
The only way I can see pistol work in CC is up the price of Fusion to 5, or a change in stat : reduce damage/AP,
Yes I t think model have no facing in this game, although pivoting the model might be a good way to hide it out of LoS.
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There's no facing - you can see and shoot all round - but, because it uses True Line of Sight for cover pivoting can matter, particularly if you're in a fairly extreme pose.
I saw a FB discussion where someone asked if he could put the Skitarii with the big long gun on a round base, so that he could be put closer to cover. Many people objected to using a smaller base than the one supplied, but it was pointed out that you can have him on the big oval and facing backwards, so that the actual 'man' can hug cover and still shoot behind him.
So I just received my copy of the game last Friday and spent the weekend doing Bob the Builder. So I just started to read the rulebook from the beginning and I am impressed with the readability of it in comparison to reading N17. Granted the first few pages are a repetitive explanation of what a Kill Team is and is not. Looking forward to getting to the meat of the rulebook as time and responsibilities allow.
CaptainDangerous
Executive Officer in charge of Fraggles
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Put the terrain together over the weekend, was really fun to put together and is pretty good, I’d totally get some more if funds allow....
And here’s a comparison of the floor tile against a 4x4 mat (and reverse side)....
And here’s a comparison of the floor tile against a 4x4 mat (and reverse side)....
Yeah the terrain is fun. I'm keen to get more one day if $ allow....
I bought the game too. Great terrain. Hoping to get a game or 2 tonight.
We have played several games today, we were 5 contenders:
tau: win vs skitarii and death guard, draw vs deathwatch
deathwatch: win vs skitarii and blood angels, draw vs tau, loss vs death guard
blood angels: draw vs skitarii and death guard, loss vs deathguard
death guard: win vs blood angels and deathwatch, loss vs tau
skitarii: draw vs blood angels, loss vs deathguard and tau
very funny and quite balanced.
rail rifle is the mvp of the day.
tau: win vs skitarii and death guard, draw vs deathwatch
deathwatch: win vs skitarii and blood angels, draw vs tau, loss vs death guard
blood angels: draw vs skitarii and death guard, loss vs deathguard
death guard: win vs blood angels and deathwatch, loss vs tau
skitarii: draw vs blood angels, loss vs deathguard and tau
very funny and quite balanced.
rail rifle is the mvp of the day.