Killing Captives during Rescue?

[erikn89nl]

Couldn't find an answer to this anywhere:

During a Rescue Mission scenario, as soon as the alarm is raised, can the defender attack the Captive(s)? Or even threaten to do so unless the attacker goes away?

Seems like a suitably devious thing to do...

 

[HiveJive81]

Yep, and I might be mistaken but consider the following:

The captive is now useless. You can't sell him. You WANT those credits.

Your opponent is sending in a team that outnumbers you- not all of your dudes are there, and I think he can bring a lot more of his. He can just use this as an opportunity to start crippling your army.

But I've yet to do a Rescue Mission because we tend to ransom them off.

 

[Ben_S]

The pre-N17 rules explicitly say that you can't attack the captive until he's free. Absent anything to the contrary, I expect that's still the RAI.

 

[Ikiry0]

Yeah, it's really bad form and rather makes playing rescue pointless if you can just execute the prisoner the moment a rescue mission happens.

 

[erikn89nl]

it's really bad form

Which is odd, considering gangbangers are normally such gentlemen about it all...

I just wondered if there were any rules about it. Interesting to see there used to be, probably an oversight in the new version.

 

[Wasteland]

I played a Rescue Mission in my second campaign game just a few days ago. My nurgle chaos cult had abducted Skullshank in the first mission Stand Off. But we screwed it up big time with the result that Skullshank escaped on his own with two flesh wounds.

What were the mistakes?
Well, the first blunder was that Skullshank was in recovery. So he couldn´t run around on his own during this scenario. I know there aren´t rules in GW1 for this sort of thing but when my dudes in recovery can´t participate in this mission then surely a captive in recovery can´t escape on his own.

The second blunder was that we assumed at one point in the game that Skullshank suddenly has freed himself. Total mental failure on our part. We simply forgot about it because we had to figure out how the sentry and reinforcements rules work.
We used in each scenario two tiles from the Badzone Delta set and I had put Skullshank into the fungi cavern to appease Nurgle in the forthcoming ceremony. Just think about it, a big burly brute with lots of fungi growing out of his immense bulk. Nurgle would have surely been pleased to witness the creation of such a creature. Skullshank only tried to escape on his own during the first and second turn. After his second failed attempt, he succumbed to the fungi spores and was seriously injured. My opponent played a gang tactic card to recover from the injury. After this incident he started to crawl to the ductway, passed through it and escaped from the board.

But all in all it was a short fun game. There was even a really hilarious moment. Korg (Champion) charged Gunnar (Cultist), rendered him useless (ooa) with his renderizer and then consolidated near the fungus cavern where Skullshank was held captive. But despite his respirator, he inhaled the spores deeply and was seriously injured in the process. Just to add insult to injury, Brigitta (Cultist) strutted to his prone form and dispatched him effortlessly in cc like she already did in the first game. Korg has defintely found his nemesis.

 

[Stubram]

Which is odd, considering gangbangers are normally such gentlemen about it all...

I just wondered if there were any rules about it. Interesting to see there used to be, probably an oversight in the new version.

Yeah, ORB and NCE (which I still play) both state you can’t ever execute a captive. For game purposes, it obviosuly makes the rescue impossible. For fluff purposes, we always just said that it’s kind of an underhive code which even bloodthirsty gangers won’t break as they never know when they’ll be captured in return! Also it’s a massive loss of respect if a gang fails to rescue their captive.

Of course, after they fail, you can go to town...


After my regular opponent captured my ganger, I failed the mission and the ganger was sold off to the guilders to go work in the mines. The ganger-now-pitslave escaped, rejoined his old gang as hired gun to get revenge on the the people that did this to him, only to die from a plasma pistol to the chest in the next fight.

In return, I captured and kept my opponents juve. After a suitable amount of torture, the juve now works for me (pure fluff, I just bought a juve and gave him the old juve’s name and weapons, but it makes the characters interesting).

 

[almic85]

No you can’t attack the captive until he is released by another attacker.

It’s written in the rules under the heading Captive Fighters.

Also remember that the captive is not released when the alarm is raised. They are only released if another ganger takes the appropriate action to free them or they free themselves.

Also worth noting that the captive freeing themselves doesn’t automatically raise the alarm either.

 

[Ikiry0]

I look forward to the one game that has the captive free themselves and kill the enemy team because they were not watching him properly.

 

[Stoof]

Funny you should mention that! My friend's captive Escher slipped her bonds and whacked two of my Orlocks before the alarm was raised! So frustrating watching her sneak up on my gangers knowing I couldn't to jack about it because I wasn't in control of them

Pasted her next turn though when my heavy decided that what she needed was a hefty injection of lead

 

[Toxiz]

I played a rescue mission and I was the defender. The captive hit 10+ to free himself at the end of the first round and he won there and then.

Is this ROI? If I´m rescue someone I would just wait until the guy has freed himself and then bottle out. the attacker wins if they free the captive, says nothing about have to flee from the board.
So everything is stacked against the defender, it is just too easy to free a captive. And if the captive does come loose on his own he get all his equipment per auto. How? Nothing about this make any sense.

So if my Venetor champ with chainsword and energyshield (2+ to hit, S 4, T 4, Save 2+ in close combat) gets free ( I only have to hit 9+ on 2D6 to make that happen) then, I would first have won so I can bottle out and earn 1 rep and the defender loose 1 rep. If I choose to stay I could just chop away until the alarm went of and then bottle out.

 

[JimboDeany]

Yes, this scenario along with a few others is broken - unfortunately this is one that cannot be avoided

 

[almic85]

Keep in mind that in a campaign each scenario doesn’t really have winners and losers as everyone can get experience, rep and creds depending on the outcome.

If you are just playing a skirmish then yes the attacker wins if the captive is freed (by others or by their own actions).

In a campaign the freed fighter is returned to the gang, but unless they “take flight” they won’t get any extra xp for the mission (though they do get rep).

It’s a mixed bag but the rescue mission should really only be used to actually rescue a fighter and doesn’t give great xp, credit or rep increases for winning and you don’t lose a lot of anything if the attacker freed the captive (1 Rep lost and Xplor gained for every fighter).

 

[Toxiz]

And a loss of 80+ credits (sell to guilders) just because I have a very slim chanse of ever winning this.
There is also no need to ever "buy" back a ganger. It is always better to try and free the captive, so my negotiation advantage as jailer has no punch at all. The only way for Venetors to get creds that have an inpact is to captue or kill. This is really hard to do. It's hard to kill and if you succeed you get half, that's around 35 maybe if not a champ. And to capture is difficult with a slim chance of ever succeeding. The other gangs get approx 65 more crowds per game than Venetors and will be leaving them behind in the race quite easily.

I don't know this because it's the first cycle for me but I can see it happen. Does anyone have experience of venators?

 

[Lachi]

We just decided not to take captives. As some said, the Scenario is broken. Everytime we played that scenario, the captive was freed and the defender got messed up realy badly. But even if the scenario wasn't broken it would be played to often. Before we strated to skip the take captives stept, every third game was rescue. Unfortunately, one of the many issue that were not thought through by the designers.

 

[Whiysper]

The only way for Venetors to get creds that have an inpact is to captue or kill. This is really hard to do. It's hard to kill and if you succeed you get half, that's around 35 maybe if not a champ. And to capture is difficult with a slim chance of ever succeeding. The other gangs get approx 65 more crowds per game than Venetors and will be leaving them behind in the race quite easily.

I don't know this because it's the first cycle for me but I can see it happen. Does anyone have experience of venators?

o/. Focussed on High-D weapons - 2 Plasma Cannons, 2 Thunder Hammers. I've killed maybe 6 fighters over the course of 12-14 games (7 weeks, 1-2 games/week), mostly with Stimm-slugged charges on a Brute Champion with the Thunder Hammer (Thunder Hammer procs are D4, aut-wound, no save). Money from captives? I just immediately offer to sell them back at cost, because no-one wants to try my sentries. (Overwatch is brutal in the sentries mission - because you get a ready marker when you're alerted. Which you may then spend on Overwatch. With a Plasma Cannon, so the alarm will go off ).

But yes. It's mostly creds from rep and kills. Captives are sort of a nice-to-have. Focus on rep and kills - because you can influence those far more readily than captives. (And you don't have to use the f**k-awful sentries mission rules -.-)

 

[dabbk]

First time I played rescue as a defender, the captive freed himself, but got melta'd, and... I recaptured him
Still, the scenario is broken, as almost impossible to win as a defender - as with all other ones using sentinels.

Unless I'm misunderstanding something?

 

[TopsyKretts]

Keep in mind the Rescue Mission has been updated in Leader's accessories pack, changing the winning condition. All the captives now have to make flight (escape the border) in order to win/lose. If at least one but not all captives take flight, it is a draw. The attacker automatically wins and the captives are freed if the defender voluntarily bottles.

We just decided not to take captives. As some said, the Scenario is broken. Everytime we played that scenario, the captive was freed and the defender got messed up realy badly. But even if the scenario wasn't broken it would be played to often. Before we strated to skip the take captives stept, every third game was rescue. Unfortunately, one of the many issue that were not thought through by the designers.

My impression was the rescue scenario was a lot less frequent than in original Necromunda and GorkaMorka when captured was on the injury chart. Regardless, it is not fun when you joined a group of friends to have to play against the same one two times in a row because of a capture. In N17, we rarely captured anyone.

 

[Lachi]

The question is: to what extent do the changed winning conditions repair the mission? The major reason to play the rescue mission is to free the captive(s). Since winning the rescue mission does not grant you a territory in a dominion campaign and is not important at all in a turf war (maybe except for the rewards), winning seems to be less important than freeing the captive.

 

[TopsyKretts]

You are right, winning is irrelevant. At least the captives are freed if the defender voluntarily bottles, I don't think that was the case before?

If the scenario is bad for the defender, that's stronger motivation for making more peaceful solutions! Unless the attacker can insist on playing the rescue scenario instead of trading the captives?