N18 Looking for feedback on Orlock, Van Saar, and Delaque lists :)

fookies

New Member
Nov 7, 2019
2
0
1
Seattle, WA, USA
Hey all! Thanks for having me on the forum. I’m working on starting a Necromunda campaign for some friends. Most of them aren’t too into the modeling/painting/collecting side of the hobby, which is great for me because I love it. I’ve acquired gangs for Escher, Goliath, Orlock, Van Saar, and Delaque. I’m planning on assembling the models based on pre-generated competetive-ish standard lists to get my friends started, with a goal of making balanced lists with an interesting blend of weapons/tactics. I’d appreciate feedback on the first three lists I’ve written! I haven’t played in about a decade, so I’m still a little rusty. Thanks for taking a look at them!

Delaque: 970 points
Leader - 110
- Web Gauntlet - 35
- Plasma Pistol - 50
- Mesh Armor - 15

Champion - 95
- Long Rifle - 30
- Mesh Armor - 15

Champion - 95
- Flachette Pistol 2@ - 60

Juves 2@ - 50
- 2x Stubguns 2@ - 20

Gangers 2@ - 100
- Shotgun 2@ - 60

Gangers 2@ - 100
- Lasgun 2@ - 30

Ganger - 50
- Stiletto Knife - 20
- Laspistol - 10


Orlock: 1000 points

Leader - 120
- Plasma Pistol - 50
- Servo Claw - 30
- Stubgun - 5
- Mesh Armor - 15

Champion - 95
- Combat Shotgun - 55
- Flak Armor - 10

Champion - 95
- Boltgun - 55
- Flak Armor - 10

Juve - 30
- Stubgun - 5
- Maul - 10

Juve - 30
- Stubgun - 5
- Fighting Knife - 15

Gangers 2@ - 110
- Flail 2@ - 40
- Stubgun 2@ - 10

Gangers 2@ - 110
- Autogun 2@ - 30

Ganger - 55
- Chainsword - 25
- Stubgun - 5

Van Saar: 990 points

Leader - 130
- Shock Baton - 30
- Sub Carbine - 15
- Mesh Armor - 15

Champion - 110
- Shield - 50
- Staff - 25
- Mesh Armor - 15

Champion - 110
- Radcannon - 130
- Laspistol - 5
- Flak Armor - 10

Gangers 4@ - 260
- Lasguns 4@ - 40

Juve - 35
- 2 Laspistols - 10
 

Baffo

Ganger
Aug 2, 2018
243
435
73
Ljubljana
Well, what starting skills you intend to take on the leader/champs helps better define their intended role in the gang/battle plan and what weapons/equipment would work best for them...
Case in point: Overseer leaders (for any gang) - If you (or your mates) decide to field an Overseer leader, it is generally most point efficient to keep the leader cheap and mainly invest in his survivability, since most of the time he will be trading his activation to give a Double activation to a more offensively tooled champion.
Anyway, regarding you proposed lists:
- Delaques:
The leader's load-out feels 'risky' to me. Plasma pistol is limited to 12'' range, is scarce and rather expensive, if you keep your leader back from the frontline/in cover - keep in mind that if a gang leader dies, you can't hire a new leader (it is the only gang member that can't be simply bought back), but one of your remaining champs will get the title of leader (but his/her profile remains as it is). If you decide to stick with this 'elite melee load-out' I would suggest getting Spring-up for the leader (If I remember correctly the Delaque leader has agility as one of his Primary tables), so that he can get un-pinned for free by passing an initiative check and charge or run away as needed.
On the other hand if you go for an Overseer leader, I'd say to drop his weapons for much cheaper ones (Stub gun and Chainsword for example).
Alternatively if you decide you'd prefer the leader to play more safely, keeping back in cover and shooting at targets of opportunity, maybe arm him/her with a Long rifle or Lasgun with Infrared sight (so he can see in the dark or trough smoke clouds), while giving him Mentor (so he can passively increase XP gains for other fighters in the gang around him), Iron will (to have less problems with Bottle checks) or maybe Dodge (to be improved by buying Blind snake pouch from the trading post to turn the skill in a 5+ invulnerable save against all attacks).
The rest of the gang looks fine as is and I assume the Long rifle champ is intended to take either Fast shot (to shoot twice per turn) or Infiltrate (to infiltrate in a forward position to snipe from) or Overwatch (to interrupt enemy activations out of turn), while the Champ with dual flechette pistols is most likely going for Gun fighter (to dual wield those guns without penality).
I would suggest using any leftover credits (and early gains from campaign games) for Photo goggles and Infrared sights in conjunction with Smoke grenades.
- Orlocks:
Again you went for a fairly expensive, melee oriented leader, but with Orlocks it a slightly better choice than for Delaques (that 3rd wound on the leader and access to primary Ferocity skills helps quite a bit for survivability). As before, if you end up taking Overseer on the leader I would strongly suggesting dropping his current expensive weapons and giving him much cheaper options (Stub or Auto pistol with a Chain sword or Power knife), but assuming you stick with his current load out I might suggest giving him True grit (for increase survivability), Nerves of steel (to keep him un-pinned and able to charge) or Unstoppable (to heal his own Flesh wounds in a protracted game).
For the Champions, I would point out that the Combat shotgun, being an auto-hitting template does not make the best use of the champs Bs 3+, so I would suggest swapping the Combat shotgun to the Bolter ganger and arming both champions with bolters or 1 bolter and 1 grenade launcher. For skills I would strongly suggest giving Munitioneer to one of the champs (to help with ammo rolls on bolters/grena launchers and later Heavy weapons) or one of the Ferocity skills of choice (personally I like Nerves of steel on a Bolter champion with Telescopic sight, so he can stay un-pinned to Aim and shoot with +2 to hit at long range with his boltgun).
- Van saars:
Here I have mainly issues with the Leader and the CC champ loadouts, as in I am not ure I see their point/intended role. All Van saars are equally bad at close combat (Ws is their 'dump stat' in D&D terms), so I can't say I agree with the investment in close combat weapons from the start of the campaign (especially weapons that don't have any + to hit in melee). If yu want to make a Van saar melee dedicated champ you're much better off seeking better CC weapons from the Trading post (personally I tend to favor Chain axes), so I would suggest dropping both melee weapons on leader and champ (you can keep the Energy shield on the champ, just give him a proper gun and leave a weapon slot open for a later decent melee weapon from the trading post or black market) and re-invest those credits in heftier guns they are much more proficient with.
As for skills I would suggest Munitioneer on the Rad cannon champ, Mentor on the leader and for the Shield champion his skill depends mainly on what gun/role you want him to play: for example I would use him as a 'Run and gun' front-liner with a Radgun or Meltagun/Combi melta (giving him the Hip shooting skill) or alternatively if he was to use a Plasmagun/combi plasma I'd give him Trickshot (since Infrared sights don't work on rapid fire guns).

Hope that helps:)
Cheers!
 
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Reactions: SuboptimusPrime
Only thing I'd add to @Baffo 's Delaque feedback (the only thing I feel I'm qualified to comment on) is this:

I agree with the leader loadout being risky, because while leaders have the best stats they are also the juiciest targets for other gangs and Delaque leaders are simply not the best in close combat, despite web gauntlets levelling the playing field a lot. If you can avoid getting charged, good, but the typical Goliath melee monster or Escher guided missile leader will turn this guy to paste on a charge. Trust me, I speak from painful experience.

I run mentor on my leader, and I armed her with a grav gun and a shock stave, the latter so she can be in melee without being in melee and the former because it has a decent max range of 18" and is a crowd control weapon with its template. I run her as part of a large chunk of my gang (three gangers and two juves) who are armed with a variety of close-assault weapons (shotguns, pistols and web weaponry). They tend to take casualties first, so they need good leadership stats near them, and they also benefit from mentor more often than the other part of my gang, who are armed with lasguns and long rifles and tend to stand far away. Also my leader likes having a few bodies between herself and whatever specialized melee threshers come barreling out of the woodwork.

The big downside of course is that a grav gun clocks in at 120 credits, making both it and the leader very expensive, so maybe you'd want to stick with the plasma pistol at first or a shotgun. But I'm emphasizing my enthusiasm for versatile melee weapons again here, so maybe run the web gauntlet on the champ and drop one of the flechettes, should work with your budget if I'm not mistaken.

And final word of advice: When running Plasma of any sort, always add at least a stub gun as a backup weapon (I mean, it's 5 creds.) because you WILL run out of ammo on that fancy plasma spitter at some point, preferably over the smoking corpses of your enemies but you never know.
 

Squee

Ganger
Jan 11, 2019
98
105
43
If you are dead set on running dedicated Melee fighters in a VS gang, you're actually better off with having a HtH Ganger. His combat stats are literally the same as champion's, but he's way cheaper and as such more expendable. And he will get hurt, have no doubts in that :)
 

fookies

New Member
Nov 7, 2019
2
0
1
Seattle, WA, USA
Thank y’all so much for your advice! It’s quite a strug trying to build gangs without having had a chance to play much, and I well appreciate your input. Here’s what I’ve restructured so far for the gangs:

Delaque: 955 credits

Leader - 110
  • Mesh Armor - 15
  • Laspistol - 10
  • Overseer - 0
Champion - 95
  • Long Rifle - 30
  • Flak armor - 0
  • Fast Shot - 0
Champion - 95
  • 2x Flachette Pistol - 60
  • Mesh armor - 15
  • Gunfighter - 0
Juve - 25
  • 2x Stubgun - 10
Juve - 25
  • 2x Stubgun - 10
Ganger - 50
  • Lasgun - 15
Ganger - 50
  • Lasgun - 15
Ganger - 50
  • Shotgun - 30
Ganger - 50
  • Shotgun - 30
Ganger - 50
  • Webgun - 115
For the Delaque I opted to go for two range groups, the lasguns and longrifle as one group, and the webgun, shotguns, and pistols as the latter group. I went with a relatively cheap overseer leader with a similar range to several other models to make the most of her Overseer ability. After the first game or two the Delaque should have enough creds leftover to equip some smoke grenades and photo goggles on various folks throughout the gang.


Orlock - 1,000 credits

Leader - 120
  • Servoclaw - 30
  • Auto pistol - 10
  • Unstoppable - 0
Champion- 95
  • Grenade Launcher - 65
  • Munitioneer - 0
Champion - 95
  • Boltgun - 55
  • Nerves of Steel - 0
Juve - 30
  • Stubgun - 5
  • Club - 10
Juve - 30
  • Stubgun - 5
  • Club - 10
Ganger - 55
  • Combat Shotgun - 55
Ganger - 55
  • Combat Shotgun - 55
Ganger - 55
  • Autogun - 15
Ganger - 55
  • Autogun - 15
Ganger - 55
  • Flail - 20
  • Stubgun - 5
For the Orlock I went through a pretty big re-write. One of the biggest things I noticed with them was that I was paying for all of their armor when many of them already came equipped with mesh! To take advantage of the template range on the combat shotguns I tried to focus them as a medium range gang between all of the stubguns and CCW, with the grenade launcher hopefully being able to throw smoke and funnel enemies into kill corridors.

Van Saar - 1,000 Credits

Leader - 130
  • Suppression Laser - 40
  • Overseer - 0
Champion - 110
  • Radcannon - 130
  • Precision Shot - 0
Champion - 110
  • Plasma Cannon - 130
  • Laspistol - 5
  • Munitioneer - 0
Juve - 35
  • 2x Laspistol - 10
Ganger - 65
  • Lasgun - 10
Ganger - 65
  • Lasgun - 10
Ganger - 65
  • Lasgun - 10
Ganger - 65
  • Lasgun - 10
The Van Saar probably went through the biggest change, with an entire rewrite of the leaders and champions with their roles. I opted to scrap all CCW from the entire gang to make room for another heavy weapon, with the Plasma Cannon having a backup Laspistol as well as the Munitioneer ability. With the suppression laser having a similar range to the lasguns, I’m hoping that the leader is often in a position to use the overseer ability.
 

Baffo

Ganger
Aug 2, 2018
243
435
73
Ljubljana
New gangs looking good. Only change I would suggest is in the Van saar's list:
- The Radcannon has the Blast trait, and Precision shot specifically does not work on weapons with Blast. I would give Munitioneer to the Radcannon champ, while the Plasma cannon champ could use Trick shot (especially when firing the Low power profile of the Plasma, to reduce Cover modifiers, since Infrared sights can't be mounted on Rapid fire/Blast guns).