N18 mesh armour usefulness?

[davide.imbriaco]

hi everyone,

Im building my first escher gang, and I'm thinking if mesh armour is actually worth the cost... even for leadership most of the time you'll face AP hits, so maybe it is better to go either mesh+under armour or nothing at all, and spend credits on more gals and more guns (and armour up later on when I have the credits to skip plain mesh and go directly to mesh+underarmour)

is this feasible, or fielding unarmoured champions is madness?

 

[SirFrog]

"Most of the time"? I'd argue that the standard ranged weapons you'll face early-to-mid game: autoguns, autopistols, lasguns, laspistols, stub cannons, stub guns, blunderbusses, shotguns, frag grenades, all have AP -. As for melee weapons, servo claw, axe, Cawdor polearms, flails, unarmed and several others are all AP - too.
Sure, you only have a 5+ with mesh but... that's still one in three that you're fine. It's never fun to get plinked twice by two lasguns and eat dirt, then regret saving those measly fifteen credits. And, with AP -1 being common among more powerful weapons, you still get a 6+. And those 6+ are frustratingly rare... until they aren't. Any chance is better than no chance.

Mesh can be upgraded with an undersuit later in the game. Until then, it's something. I'd never skimp out on mesh for the important pieces of my gang, myself. Can you go without? Probably. Is it wise? I'd argue no.

 

[Lord_Ikka]

I mean, it's your gang, but spending the extra credits to protect a Champion from potentially taking wounds is usually a good idea. Especially with gangs like the Eschers who are T3, you'll be looking at getting wounded by regular basic weapons (auto/lasguns) on a 4+. That means a 50/50 chance of getting wounded from the weakest of your foes' weapons on one of your most expensive and important gangers. The boys or toys argument is always a personal one, but I'd rather spend the last 75 or so credits I have at gang creation on keeping my important gangers alive rather than getting another warm body.

 

[davide.imbriaco]

yep, my thought was that my champions will probably face the enemy AP heavy guns (which would reduce or negate mesh armour)... but dying from light guns for skipping on mesh would be annoying, yes

maybe I'll run a test game, just to see how bad it is

thank you all for the tips!

 

[Psyan]

Mesh Armor is definitely worth the low cost (possibly too low, IMO), particularly on champions and leaders.

 

[Gdolkin]

Shotguns are fairly common and S4 Ap-0 D2, so will be rolling Injury Dice against a T3 W2 Champion on a single 3+ roll to wound, or you could get a 1 in 3 chance to be unharmed for 15 creds of lovely Mesh, price of half a shotgun

 

[Lunarcruiser]

For 15 credits it is just too cheap to pick up mesh. As @SirFrog said the majority of early weapons has no AP which a 5+ save gives a fair chance. The cheapest champion killer the basic ganger can get is the 30 credit shotgun (S4 D2 AP-) with a 15 credit mesh it is a decent screen to the bulk of most small arms fire. See @Gdolkin above.

You are correct that heavier weapons (including bolters and Special weapons not just Heavy) can often target bosses but canny players will not necessarily target them first off. With the extra wounds and likely better armour bosses have,bit can often be more efficient to target the weaker gangers and juves. For most scenario triggering Bottle tests automatically looses Reputation and once bottled the opposing gang will keep having to test to see if individuals stick around.
Take out a few juves easily and your opponent will be in an attrition war. Bottle checks key around the number of bodies not the quality of them.

Especially in campaign play the game keys around long term play. You need your champions making Trade actions or medical escorts post battle, you need fighters to not be in recovery, you need to not rack up loads of lasting injuries. A 15 credit armour at the early game greatly reduces you being stuck in a death spiral early on.
I would recommend all champions, leader and specialists start with at least mesh. You can get mesh for everyone else later and Undersuits as you progress when more AP is around.
My group plays a lot of long campaigns and I aim to have at least mesh and Undersuits for everyone. In the last four campaigns I have lost or retired only six fighters because I armoured up and defended against small arms fire.

 

[ClerigoProfano]

hi everyone,

Im building my first escher gang, and I'm thinking if mesh armour is actually worth the cost... even for leadership most of the time you'll face AP hits, so maybe it is better to go either mesh+under armour or nothing at all, and spend credits on more gals and more guns (and armour up later on when I have the credits to skip plain mesh and go directly to mesh+underarmour)

is this feasible, or fielding unarmoured champions is madness?

I played my 1st game in about 20 years at the weekend , brought back allot of memories! I played Escher my load out was made in about 20min all equipped with mesh armor and the Juves given Flack armor , they were up against Cawdor, so we spent allot of time on fire! , perhaps my dice rolls were just VERY lucky but I think any armor/save is to My/Your gangs advantage , what I noticed during my game is the great advantage of Assists from friendly gang members (pg122) big core rulebook).

Thats my Penny's worth, hope its useful, HAPPY HUNTING!

 

[Lunarcruiser]

I played my 1st game in about 20 years at the weekend , brought back allot of memories! I played Escher my load out was made in about 20min all equipped with mesh armor and the Juves given Flack armor , they were up against Cawdor, so we spent allot of time on fire!

Cawdor opponents are the only reason to ever get Flak due to the Template spam.
Hazard suits ignore Blaze.

So does mowing down the midden pickers before they get anywhere near you.

 

[voidwyrm]

In a nutshell: Mesh is usefull on expensive models and as soon, as takeing mesh doesnt reduce the number of gangers you can take.

 

[Psyan]

Three sets of mesh armor for your Leader and Champions vs taking a spare Juve with a pistol... I'd rather have the armor, no contest.

 

[HugeSamples]

Three sets of mesh armor for your Leader and Champions vs taking a spare Juve with a pistol... I'd rather have the armor, no contest.

Depending on the pistol you can only get 2 sets of mesh armor.

A juve with a stubgun or auto pistol costs 30 credits and mesh armor costs 15 credits each.

I'd still take the armor on my leader and champ over a juve.

 

[voidwyrm]

I have to say, that many people underestimate the value of more activations, board-presence for mission actions and numbers for bottle tests. So unarmoured champions is certainly not madness in a starting roster. But overall, especially with the new cover/blast rules, the 15 points for mesh is almost never a bad investment.

 

[HugeSamples]

I have to say, that many people underestimate the value of more activations, board-presence for mission actions and numbers for bottle tests.

Most of the time you don't have your full crew in a scenario, and unless you're Cawdor you don't get to bring extra guys (this is one of the reasons the Cawdow are so strong).

Reinforcements are something to consider, but for a lot of gangs the leaders and champions pull a disproportionate amount of the gang's strength.

Action economy is super important (which I why I recommend people have at least 8 members in their starting gang).

I'd cut other "toys" to reach 8+ members before I cut the "basic" armor on my important models to get more members. i.e. do you really need that *insert expensive weapon* at the start of the campaign?

 

[Psyan]

This is why I usually just start Escher, Goliath, Orlock and Delaque Leaders with just a moderately good gun and then add a pistol and melee weapon later.
Equipping fighters for multiple combat roles on gang creation costs you numbers.

 

[voidwyrm]

Depending on the pistol you can only get 2 sets of mesh armor.

A juve with a stubgun or auto pistol costs 30 credits and mesh armor costs 15 credits each.

I'd still take the armor on my leader and champ over a juve.

I totally agree, that numbers isnt everything... and also with the later point, that its maybe not the armor on your champion, that needs to be reconsidered. (As 15 creds for a 5+ is indeed a great deal in most cases)

That beeing said, IF I didnt have around 8 Units in the Gang, then I personally would probably go with the juve over the armor ... in some cases (If that would be the only thing I could cut.)

 

[JawRippa]

The only armour more cost-effective than mesh is furnace plates if you don't mess up your vision arcs. Mesh is a must-have early on on all elite members. However if you are having problems with budget either buy mesh, hazard suit or don't buy anything at all. Flak armour is overpriced to the moon in comparison, same for carapace.

 

[Gdolkin]

It do blow my mind how it's 10 for Flak 6+/5+, 15 for Mesh 5+ then a small matter of 80 for LC 4+ when you can get 4+ with Mesh and an Undersuit for 40 total..

 

[Vonvilkee]

I feel like mesh should be like twice as expensive, then it would be a real choice and still people would pay it.

Put the 4+ combo at 55 credits, prolly still too cheap compared to carapace but the access to a 3+ should prolly be paid for as part of carapace not the under suit.

Back to the topic at hand take mesh it is criminally cheap, I'd take it on my leader and try to on my champs even at twice the cost. We'd have a better discussion point if mesh was 30 creds because at 15 it rarely impacts the over all gang cost for the few fighters you'd take it for.

 

[JawRippa]

I think that mesh is fine, its just that everything else is too expensive, except for furnace plates probably. Flak should be 5, furnace 10, light carapace 55-60...
We did houserule carapace to remain 80, but it gets an AP reduction, so AP-1 becomes AP- and AP- remains AP-.