N18 Mounts in the hive

Valdras86

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Jan 4, 2023
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Ok, this feels like a stupid question, but I need to ask it anyway.

We are currently using the Necrodamus rules, and part of it says "Note that vehicles are generally only designed for Ash Wastes battlefields, however agreements can be made to include vehicles in the crew for any battlefields."

So obviously, unless everyone agrees you can't use Vehicles in the hive, but does that include mounts? Can Escher Cutters and Van Saar hoverboards be taken in the hive? Can we all take dirt bikes? I cannot find anything specifically about mounts, only vehicles.
 
Page 134 of the Ash Wastes rulebook states that ‘in general vehicles should only be included in battles taking place in the ash wastes, though if both players agree, they can be taken in zone Mortalis and sector mechanicus battles as well.’

So basically it’s up to you. With the mounts it is, as you say a slightly greyer area, though I’d suggest it’s covered by the same caveat above - ‘if both players agree.’

Two notes, however:
1. Van Saar hoverboards aren’t technically mounts as they don’t grant the ‘Mounted’ condition (they pre-date that set of rules - unless it’s been FAQ’d without me noticing).
2. Most scenarios published after the Ash Wastes rules state explicitly whether vehicles can or cannot be used.
 
The reason why Necrodamus is vague is because the source is vague. My initial understanding was that Ash Wastes is a special format for vehicles+mounts. That vehicles and mounts are treated similar for the purpose of game format. Hence Nomads only have mounts, but it's ok because mounts are equivalent to vehicles. But then the N22 rulebook of course only mentions "vehicles" specifically as an optional part of other formats (2d ZM & 3d SM), so the question of mounts remains unanswered.
 
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It is currently officially a grey area.
Mounts are unable to be climb however so many parts of sector mechanacus boards will be unavailable unless there are ramps.
The size of thier bases and shape is also a factor. Many tight corners will bottleneck mounts limiting thier uses on some boards.
It if you allow them inhive is a balancing act. Is the decreased access to the board worth the speed (which can not be further increased via ), pinning mitigation and ride by attacks?
 
I’d say certain environments probably make vehicles less useful, mounts might make some sense but i’d err on the side of caution and limited them to the wastes.
You could test a skirmish game with some, see how you go but it may be not that fun or useful in a dense Sector Mechanicus environment or tight maze of Zone Mortalis.

The Van Saar hoverboards pre-date all that and are clearly a troop type in the new House books, so are permitted in all games, same with Orlock wreckers. I doubt either of them go fast enough to become treacherous in a heavily industrial environment, whereas the Escher cutters probably would.

Where you position the Cawdor fancy legs is another question entirely.
 
the hive can have huge spaces inside it.
the novels also mention small vehicles being used for transport.
go for it
 
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What the fluff says and how dense the cover is on your gaming table are two different things.

I’d argue if your table is open enough to be moving vehicles or mounts around then you’re playing an Ash Wastes game, just with a different theme for the scenery.
 
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Use mounts in the Hive if you want, but yes, the rules don't do them favours. Its a pity Mighty Leap doesn't work vertically for instance. You do see dirtbikes driving up walls in stunt shows, but with the speed you can get out of them in game I suppose not being able to make it onto higher levels balances them.

A 20'' move with a Stormcaller that lets you run away with a loot crate and do two drive by attacks in one turn is probably worth balancing by not being also able to climb. But yeah, I'm fine with bringing bikes and animal mounts into the Underhive setting wise, as it is a City. ...They may fair better on Zone Mortalis of course - unless you block off passages with terrain that needs to be squeezed over.
 
For my games I will allow them. I love those scenes in actionmovies where Mr. Bond & Co. run through narrow streets and are tracked by the bad guys on bikes.
Same goes for the good guy on horse during a Zombicalypse.
Definitivly there will be situations where rules won't make sense. But you'll never know (and learn) if you don't try... :)
 
Oh right, thinking about this. I'm putting together a Zone Mortalis board right now and am considering modifying the bike rules to allow them (...because bikes in the Underhive are cool). Just by making it so mounts count corners as difficult terrain (thus adding, what, 1'' to 3'' inches to their move for every corner - as not very corner's going to allow tight turns if you put barrels, etc, on the tile's edg). Though mounts would be useless on a small board like that. Sure they get a lot of movement, but there'd be so many closed doors that they wouldn't get to do a double move unless someone else had already moved ahead.

Hmn, come to think of it, there'd be a similar issue of running away with objectives in that case - where an infantry figure opens the doors to the objective, then the bikes speed in and out now that the way's clear. Presumably you'd want to then make the number of routes a bike could use to get across a board (even if doors are open) very limited and quite winding (and possibly with a few patches of difficult terrain too - not stuff that would block a bike, but infantry can climb over, just speed bumps).
 
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Oh, I meant that, as per the rest of my post, mounts long movement could make objective based games unfun. So finding ways - either with terrain setup, or by adding a rule - could balance that.

I was coming at it from the perspective that in other systems turning a vehicle costs movement (or vehicles are limited to what sort of turn they can do based on their size and speed). You can either go in a straight line and use your full move, or the sharper the turn the more distance you're penalised (in the case of Zone Mortalis that'd be 90 degree turns, which are quite sharp). Seems sensible to me, as you aren't going to be making sharp turns at speed on a bike like that in the real world (at least not without having to role those thrown from the saddle rules, hmn, which might be something else we consider in our own games).
 
Oh, I meant that, as per the rest of my post, mounts long movement could make objective based games unfun. So finding ways - either with terrain setup, or by adding a rule - could balance that.
I don't think letting people have Dirt Bikes will affect objective based games any more than various the movement buffs that were already available did.
 
Oh, I'm not aware of any other movement buffs outside of the Nomad's skill tree and, what, jetbikes / hover boards (buffs that specifically let you pick up an objective that is, as yeah there's the Sprint skill)? We'd probably house rule those the same as mounts on a Zone Mortalis board too for consistency TBH (not that anyone in my group uses those units). :)
 
IIRC Dirt Bikes give movement 8, right? Van Saar Prospects get +2 move and can fly over terrain on their grav-cutters (which pre-date Ash Wastes) putting them on M7 before any Advances. Stim Slugs give +2 move for a turn and the Escher stim Hyper gives +2 move for a whole game, with at least Escher, Delaque and Orlock having access to fighters that start at M6 it isn't that hard to get a M8 fighter if you want it.
 
There is a difference betwixt stats and modifiers.
Base stats are in thier core stats and modifiers add or subtract them. Temporary ones are modifiers, the slimm slugs etc which state they last a round or battle or whatever. The Orlock jump pack and Van Saar grav cutter say that they add to the fighters move. Not move statistic so they are modifiers as well. Wreaker can even leave thier pack at home as it is wargear and Tools of the Trade grants them extra fighter cards with different loadouts.
I believe, but can't get to my books right now, that mounts are unaffected by a fighters xp based stats and the movement is tied to the vehicle, real world term not gaming, and not the fool riding it. There is even a arbitrator rule suggestion that you can modify the wasteland dirt bike itself with certain vehicle, gaming this time, upgrades so a glys or nitro burner which modified the bike.
 
IIRC Dirt Bikes give movement 8, right? Van Saar Prospects get +2 move and can fly over terrain on their grav-cutters (which pre-date Ash Wastes) putting them on M7 before any Advances. Stim Slugs give +2 move for a turn and the Escher stim Hyper gives +2 move for a whole game, with at least Escher, Delaque and Orlock having access to fighters that start at M6 it isn't that hard to get a M8 fighter if you want it.
This is one of the things that's annoying me about playing AWN right now. They're invis, storms and melee mechanics are completely half-baked outside of the AW campaign yet you suggest that they may need some house rules to be fun to play outside of the AW campaign you get told that they're balanced because they get so much movement, when the reality is that as you said other gangs can get similar movement with better defensiveness and survivability and without their core mechanics being unfinished when the campaign isn't optimal.

Sorry for somewhat derailing the conversation but I felt like it was relevant enough to put out there and I can't be the only AWN fan that feels like in most scenarios you have to play like a discount VS gang.