N18 Multiple Melee hits and knockback.

Mesuno

Juve
Aug 5, 2019
22
1
3
I have a goliath zerker who has knockback and potentially up to 7 separate attacks. It has come to our attention that we may be handling knock back inappropriately.

Knockback triggers on a hit. Grag Smashfist rolls 7 hits dice, so can trigger knockback multiple times on a single fighter. Assuming all 7 hits are successful and all trigger knockback... how do we handle potentially 7 knockbacks?

  1. One 7" move, if hit an object total damage is increased by 1. If meeting a pitfall do 1 initiative check? (essentially they get merged into one super knockback)
  2. 7 separate 1" moves, it blocked from moving damage is increased by 1 per knockback for a total of 7. If meeting a pitfall, 7 separate initiative checks - one per knockback.
  3. One knockback triggers. Target is moved out of range of the other attacks so they do not resolve as the target is no longer valid (NB he actually has versatile 2" so this would be a little different for my unit - it also doesn't fit with how multiple simultaneous dice rolls are usually handled)
  4. Knockback allows a follow up to stay engaged. If I follow up can I move eg 7" to stay with my target - potentially beyond the fighters normal base move?
  5. 1" move, only. If it hits an object each knockback die gets +1 damage. If they meet a pitfall there is 1 initiative check.
I can see other situations where multiple knockbacks may come into play - eg the "Grenade Bouquet" tactics card. Immediately make 3 attacks with a grenade then go out of ammo.
 

Kiro The Avenger

Gang Champion
Apr 4, 2018
333
281
68
Bristol, UK
The most sensible and simplist is option 5.

But to be clear, with option 2 that's not +7 damage to all his attacks, each hit that knocks the target into an obstacle gets +1 damage. So if they were 2.5" away from the wall, the first 2 knockbacks wouldn't, but then the following 5 all push them into the wall and get +1 damage for themselves.
 

Thorgor

Of The YAQ
Oct 12, 2015
3,304
7,138
138
35
Issy-les-Moulineaux 92130 France
We don't know how multiple hits from a single attack are to be handled because they never bothered to write it down. This is particularly egregious in a game with a flesh wound mechanism (each successful hit may reduce the target's toughness, making subsequent hits more likely to wound).

Knockback is one of those things that make me think hits have to be resolved sequentially. There doesn't seem to be any other way to get a satisfying result.
It'd go something like that:
  1. Choose an attack dice to resolve (if there is no attack dice left, the attack ends)
  2. If you can engage the target with the corresponding weapon, make a hit roll. Otherwise, the dice is discarded and go to 1.
  3. If the result of the hit roll is greater than the target's strength, they are pushed back 1". Choose whether or not the attacker follows them up. If the target is pushed into impassable terrain/another fighter, make a note for it. If the target is pushed into a pit, also make a note for it (it will be resolved later).
  4. If the hit roll is successful, make a wound roll. Otherwise, go to 8.
  5. If the wound roll is successful, make a save roll (if applicable). Otherwise go to 8.
  6. If the save roll is failed (or there was no save roll to make), the target is dealt damage equal to the weapon's Damage characteristic, +1 if they were pushed into impassable terrain/another fighter during step 3. Reduce the target's Wounds and/or make an Injury roll accordingly.
  7. If the target is out of action, go to 10.
  8. If the target was pushed into a pit, resolve the fall now
  9. If the target is not out of action, go to 1
  10. Make a lasting injury roll for the target
 

Kiro The Avenger

Gang Champion
Apr 4, 2018
333
281
68
Bristol, UK
The problem with that is you resolve hits after you've chosen a target, it's an entirely different step.
So whether or not they're still in base contact doesn't change the fact you've already (legally) chosen them as the target, and you're never requires to recheck.
It's the same in 40k.

It's also totally different to how everyone does resolve attacks.
Although 40k works exactly like you described, with the above exception. Although Necromunda isn't 40k, resolving attacks does smell a lot like it.
 

almic85

Gang Hero
Oct 30, 2014
845
1,333
113
Palmerston, ACT, Australia
I think it’s an issue in the N17 rules caused by how they state the steps for close combat.

In the old rules all of the steps that were part of Close Combat were stated in the close combat phase. You worked out the number of hits, then all of your wound rolls, then all of the save rolls, then all of the injury rolls.

In the new rules the close combat rules step 6 refers back to the shooting section instead of just listing the steps out like what was in the old rules.

I honestly think that the rules writers honestly expected close combat to be resolved like the old rules where all wound rolls were made, then all saves made, then all injuries resolved, and didn’t understand the consequence of how they broke the rules up in the new rulebook.
 

Mesuno

Juve
Aug 5, 2019
22
1
3
if there alive after 7 HITS! you are doing something wrong :D
I've had a situation where Grag has distributed 7 attacks over 5 fighters - versatile is great :D

But knowing, for example, how to apply multiple knockbacks at a pitfall makes a substantial difference. EG if a fighter has multiple chances to fall I might put more attacks on a key fighter to take them directly OOA, otherwise he only has one CdG to spread over multiple units.
 

Thorgor

Of The YAQ
Oct 12, 2015
3,304
7,138
138
35
Issy-les-Moulineaux 92130 France
Eh, it's even more interesting with multiple targets, as you obviously can't follow up all of them at once. If you use a non-Versatile Melee weapon to distribute 4 attacks among two targets (2 each) and roll all 6s, you should not be able to push both of them 2" away, regardless of how many times you choose to follow up.