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N17/Neomunda Arbitrator's Handbook Project

Malo

YakTribe Mechanicum
Staff member
Yak Founder
Feb 17, 2011
5,422
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York, PA, USA
yaktribe.games
So we'll make them do damage 1, so that people can play with just the basic rules.
Yep.
Except now you have made a nonsense of the weapon profiles.
Yep.
The attempt to create 'basic rules' (and to divide rules across books) has a lot to answer for imo. It broke up lots of the logical structure, which requires fixes to be written in, which screw up the rules even more, etc, etc.
Yep

What a profound reply I just made.
 

Vonvilkee

Gang Hero
Jan 7, 2018
805
589
108
Bellingham, Washington USA
Okay new thought on experience woes...

Gang experience instead of specific model. What if every ooa (recovery "failure", pit falling, CDG, what have you) is tracked in a bucket and at the end of the game each model that participated gets one experience plus an equal share of the pool?

You could put extra on top but this would allow some more control over who gets the experience while the gang just fights in the moment! You could share a juves CDG experience with a Las gun ganger who put all those chumps down for the stomp. Models that succumb to their wounds at the end could add to the pool as well. This would increase the ooa experience available while still requiring injuries without just rewarding lots of serious injuries... discuss
 

Cpt. Boriel

Gang Champion
Jan 7, 2018
275
226
43
Vermont
Okay new thought on experience woes...

Gang experience instead of specific model. What if every ooa (recovery "failure", pit falling, CDG, what have you) is tracked in a bucket and at the end of the game each model that participated gets one experience plus an equal share of the pool?

You could put extra on top but this would allow some more control over who gets the experience while the gang just fights in the moment! You could share a juves CDG experience with a Las gun ganger who put all those chumps down for the stomp. Models that succumb to their wounds at the end could add to the pool as well. This would increase the ooa experience available while still requiring injuries without just rewarding lots of serious injuries... discuss
That sounds like an interesting idea, have you play tested it?
 
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Vonvilkee

Gang Hero
Jan 7, 2018
805
589
108
Bellingham, Washington USA
That sounds like an interesting idea, have you play tested it?

I plan to soon. Thought I'd post my beta rules here to see if there was any traction with other arbitrators. In my mind it equally shares the experience gained across the members, player chooses what fighter gets uneven experience. It also slightly increases the number of experience points in the pool (by simply tracking all ooa), doesn't increase it ridiculously like an every serious injury would, and does not add tracking of what fighter caused the down/ serious injury that sent a fighter ooa multiple turns later.

The succumbs to injuries thing is the only one I'm iffy on. I like getting experience for it especially in those instances where your opponent bottles out with only one fighter down... but if you force them all down that could get a little experience crazy.

I like it cuz I see a cup on the side every ooa drop a token in the cup. End of the battle pull the tokens out assign experience. Mentor even continues to work cuz that is given to the fighter in the moment follow those rules as normal, or just allow an extra token in the cup if the requirements are met. Personally I'd go with the specific fighter gets it in the moment but could be fine either way.
 

Cpt. Boriel

Gang Champion
Jan 7, 2018
275
226
43
Vermont
I think you should totally write it up in the handbook link. Unexpectedly I am not the arbitrator, found a game shop running a campaign about 30 min away. So we’re running as close to RAW as possible (except “stupid obvious errors”). But I’ll give it a spin when some folks get back from spring break
 
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Vonvilkee

Gang Hero
Jan 7, 2018
805
589
108
Bellingham, Washington USA
I think you should totally write it up in the handbook link. Unexpectedly I am not the arbitrator, found a game shop running a campaign about 30 min away. So we’re running as close to RAW as possible (except “stupid obvious errors”). But I’ll give it a spin when some folks get back from spring break

I post from a phone will be a bit before I can sit down with a full PC but I will commit my thinking to the handbook.

Thanks!
 

FerociousBeast

Gang Champion
Jun 1, 2015
492
1,166
123
Verona, VA
Interesting idea, @Vonvilkee, though I think you need to add some clarification around what happens when one of YOUR guys gets killed in a match. I'd say that you allocate XP to the dead guys anyway, to avoid your last man standing getting beaucoup undeserved levels.
 
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JTzara

Ganger
Jan 29, 2018
134
154
68
Berlin
Okay new thought on experience woes...

Gang experience instead of specific model. What if every ooa (recovery "failure", pit falling, CDG, what have you) is tracked in a bucket and at the end of the game each model that participated gets one experience plus an equal share of the pool?

You could put extra on top but this would allow some more control over who gets the experience while the gang just fights in the moment! You could share a juves CDG experience with a Las gun ganger who put all those chumps down for the stomp. Models that succumb to their wounds at the end could add to the pool as well. This would increase the ooa experience available while still requiring injuries without just rewarding lots of serious injuries... discuss
I like it. The rule of thumb that every non-accidental OOA should grant 1XP is a good one, and introducing individual judgement into who should get the XP is a nice idea.

Unless I've missed something, it relies on a fair minded group of players and a certain amount of objectivity, though, right? People will need to avoid the temptation to give the XP to someone who 'really really needs it'. or to pile it all into one fighter. Then again, we live with plenty of other aspects of the game that could be 'gamed' much more significantly, so I don't see that as a serious problem
 
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Vonvilkee

Gang Hero
Jan 7, 2018
805
589
108
Bellingham, Washington USA
This is the sort of feed back I was looking for! My group is pretty fair minded. I intend to have equal distribution to be required this will cut the gaming down... didn't consider the recently deceased.
 

Vonvilkee

Gang Hero
Jan 7, 2018
805
589
108
Bellingham, Washington USA
Unless I've missed something, it relies on a fair minded group of players and a certain amount of objectivity, though, right? People will need to avoid the temptation to give the XP to someone who 'really really needs it'. or to pile it all into one fighter. Then again, we live with plenty of other aspects of the game that could be 'gamed' much more significantly, so I don't see that as a serious problem

Evenly distributed as possible prolly state it as no fighter can receive an additional experience point till all members have gotten one them start the process again.

Further thought actually has me worried about builds that don't really get experience in the standard would see drastic increases. Not sure this is a problem but an overseer leader would get more than they might otherwise. This increase would be at the cost of a fast shot champion. Pros and cons to be sure.
 

JTzara

Ganger
Jan 29, 2018
134
154
68
Berlin
Slightly mad idea:

Given that the Rivet Cannon is now fairly useless without a suspensor-thing, would it be worth keeping it as unwieldy, but making it versatile? I can imagine it as a CC weapon...
 
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Vonvilkee

Gang Hero
Jan 7, 2018
805
589
108
Bellingham, Washington USA
Heya folks,

Odd issue in our game today, the Defender in the Sabotage Scenario voluntarily bottled once it seemed the objective was doomed, (Down to 1 wound with a mining laser pointed at it) at which point he effectively won the game? As the otherwise successful attackers basically got nothing :/

I mean it seems like if the defenders run off the attackers should count as scragging the objective? Seeing as it was undefended :D

Ive asked on the Official FB too but wondered what people thought

Truth fact sir! Feels like if the defenders run off the attackers should win. However we need to consider the local law but interrupt to this end I've instigated a little timing rule for anything that relies on doing something specific while it is defended. Sabotage, looting etc.

Attacking players get a guaranteed number of turns equal to the size of the defending gang. If the defending gang runs off prior the attackers get those remaining turns to move around the board and complete objectives. Need to think a little harder on that cuz it should be balancing act. I've also thought about a number of extra turns after the bottle based on how bad the test was failed. Smaller the margin the fewer single player turns, with a willing bottle being the most but that feels about as abusable.

Final thought as I was typing this out is 7 minus the failing bottle roll after modifier. Lose one and bottle? Opponent get 6 turns to run the table, lose four and roll a six? Game over. Lose four and take the fail? 3 extra turns for the attackers.

Wanted to add this here in the moment from another thread. Also just finished clearing space for actual pc use, yay home ownership in the states.
 
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Vonvilkee

Gang Hero
Jan 7, 2018
805
589
108
Bellingham, Washington USA
Okay almost a year later and I've managed to play test the experience thing but my store is running a campaign (so haven't written it jerk proof) ... thought for changes are that money needs to be taxed or something in combination with increased experience. Better fighters with all the money get really lethal fast as a gang.

Taxing thoughts are more flat tax on each game winning maybe a multiple of the lowest available income based on a leadership test. Narrative is gang with money/ members/ fancy equipment is more likely to splurge on parties and non fighting expenses up to the leader via his ld to keep them in line. Modifiers based on underdog bonus, overall gang rating checked to a chart.

Pass no cap
Fail by 1 cap at 200 creds
Each additional point failed by reduces cap by 10 creds.

If the modifiers are substantial enough it will make picking on the underdogs a bad choice for the top gangs encouraging them to bloody each other and focus on non cash territories increasing choices...
 
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KingNova3000

New Member
Apr 17, 2014
3
2
13
Well, here is something I've been working on. Because the Tactic Card deck assembly rules are pretty trashy, I decided to overhaul them for our upcoming campaign. The card game player inside me had to to do it. These are the first draft, and are yet to see table time.

ALTERNATIVE TACTIC CARD RULES

TACTIC CARD GENERAL RULES
By default, each scenario will outline when and how many Tactic Cards are drawn. However, with these alternative rules, this process has been standardised to keep the process more unified. Unless the scenario specifically calls out Alternative Tactic Cards, ignore a scenarios Tactic Card rules and use these instead.

Deck Building
When initially recruiting your crew, you may assemble a Tactics Deck using the following guidelines:
  • Must consist of exactly 20 Tactic Cards.
  • Only one copy of each Tactic Card can be included.
  • Tactic Cards from other factions cannot be included.
Modifying Tactics Deck
At the start of the game, before any setup begins, you may modify your Tactics Deck by replacing up to five cards. These new cards will then remain in your Tactics Deck until you gain the opportunity to modify again.

Simple Tactics
When recruiting your crew, you may opt to not use a Tactics Deck at all for the duration of the campaign. If you do so, your leader gains the following leadership skill automatically. This skill is not considered to be their starting skill.

No Nonsense
If this fighter is not Pinned, Critically Injured, or Out of Action, you may add or subtract 1 from your Priority Rolls.

TACTIC CARDS IN PLAY

Tactic Card Starting Hand
At the start of the game, before gangs are deployed, you must draw 3 Tactic Cards to form your starting hand. You may opt to mulligan your hand by shuffling all cards back into their deck, and then drawing again. You are permitted only a single mulligan.

Tactic Card Redraw
During the End Phase, after all Rally Tests have been made, you draw a single Tactics Card you’re your deck and add it to your hand.

Desperate Ploy
After making a roll, you may discard 3 Tactic Cards to re-roll one of their dice.


NEW SKILLS
Whilst using the Alternative Tactic Card Rules, the following new Leadership skills become availble.

LEADERSHIP

Strategic
If this fighter is not Pinned, Critically Injured, or Out of Action, you may draw 2 cards during the End Phase instead of one. Choose one to keep, and then reshuffle the other back into your deck.

Forward Thinker
After drawing your starting hand, you may immediately discard a card to look through your Tactics Deck for a “play at the start of the battle” card and add it to your starting hand.

Clever Ploy
If this fighter is not Pinned, Critically Injured, or Out of Action, roll a D6 after playing a Tactics Card, and on a result of a 6+, the card placed is placed on the top of your Tactics Deck instead of being discarded.

Pulling the Strings
If this fighter is not Pinned, Critically Injured, or Out of Action, it may make a Pulling the String Basic Action; look at the top 3 cards of you Tactics Deck, and then place two of those card at the bottom of the deck in any order, and then place the remaining card on the top of the deck.

Versatile Strategy
When making a Desperate Ploy, treat “play at the start of the battle” cards as being worth two cards.
 

Pacific

Ganger
Apr 10, 2018
56
73
48
Cheltenham, UK
Okay almost a year later and I've managed to play test the experience thing but my store is running a campaign (so haven't written it jerk proof) ... thought for changes are that money needs to be taxed or something in combination with increased experience. Better fighters with all the money get really lethal fast as a gang.

Taxing thoughts are more flat tax on each game winning maybe a multiple of the lowest available income based on a leadership test. Narrative is gang with money/ members/ fancy equipment is more likely to splurge on parties and non fighting expenses up to the leader via his ld to keep them in line. Modifiers based on underdog bonus, overall gang rating checked to a chart.

Pass no cap
Fail by 1 cap at 200 creds
Each additional point failed by reduces cap by 10 creds.

If the modifiers are substantial enough it will make picking on the underdogs a bad choice for the top gangs encouraging them to bloody each other and focus on non cash territories increasing choices...

I am using the post-game and monetary section from NCE - its a better balancing mechanism from stopping gangs getting too big and having masses of money (you have to pay for all of their food and split up the booty!)
 
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