Dedicating a thread to the discussion and impact of the new house books in relation to the separation from N18 and how it will affect the tools here.
Necromunda N20 Ruleset separation
- Thread starter Malo
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- moar rulez n??
N20 here we go!
Now that I think of it, we might actually need N20 as a new Prefix for Necromunda Forum threads to clarify if a rules discussion/question is related to the new House of books or pre-House books...
Thinking about it some more, I would suggest to leave the Goliath gang in the Underhive 'gang builder' as it is now, just add N17/18 to the gang 'name' (since I expect many gaming groups might want to keep using the current gang composition for ongoing campaigns or for groups that decide to stick with the current gang rules until all the Houses get their codex and are back on 'a level playing field') and add the new 'Codex' versions of the House gangs with N20 added to the gang name (as their 'codexes' come out).
As for how to implement all the new options into the gang composition tools, I would suggest having a different fighter entry/profile for Vatborn/Natborn/Unborn each with his/her HWL and an additional selection menu (like the current menu of starting skills) for their Gene-smiting upgrades.
For example the Leader can be one of 3 variants: Vatborn Leader, Natborn Leader and Unborn Leader, all having access to the same HWL but each with their own Gene upgrades (something like Venator have multiple fighter profiles for each fighter type, just here you have more).
Good luck mate!
Possibly you could call the goliaths existing list the "underhive" list and the new one the "house list"
I think it would be N21 since we not getting Cawdor or Delaque until then. Oh wait we didn’t really get them until a year later every other time. *punches hole in wall*
Well I guess came out same time as everyone else in Gangs of Underhive. Actually first since alphabetical order in book. *starts to patch hole in wall, no wait a second, still 12-15 months to get a Stig Shambler mini, throws tools down in disgust*
Can't pick my copy up til Monday but it does sound like gang creation has been tweaked quite significantly even for Juves, Champions and Leaders before considering new fighter types. So a new toolset seems reasonable.
So a gang can be built to either N18 or N20- so far so good. However despite any personal reservations it is likely that people would wish to mix N18 and N20 built gangs in a campaign.
Not being able to do so would be an issue (unlike say N95 and N18 which are completely incompatible). This to me would be an early decision/ use case to consider. Not sure how interlinked gang creation and campaign tools are.
Its certainly a strength of yaktribe tools that they support multiple ways of playing, i.e. able to switch restrictions off.
So a gang can be built to either N18 or N20- so far so good. However despite any personal reservations it is likely that people would wish to mix N18 and N20 built gangs in a campaign.
Not being able to do so would be an issue (unlike say N95 and N18 which are completely incompatible). This to me would be an early decision/ use case to consider. Not sure how interlinked gang creation and campaign tools are.
Its certainly a strength of yaktribe tools that they support multiple ways of playing, i.e. able to switch restrictions off.
Yes, the 'Underhive gang creation tool' should remain as it is currently (especially since we have no idea when/if the non-house gangs will be updated to this same degree and therefore may always stay in their current form), but to make it possible to play N20 House gangs along N18 gangs (because they did not yet get their codex or may never get a codex) the N20 gangs should be just additional House gangs in the N18 'tool' - that is why I suggested making a new Gang entry and differentiating the 2 version as Goliath N18 and Goliath N20 (or as MI2sjw suggested Goliath Underhive and Goliath House) and trying to 'integrate' the N20 Goliaths (with their 3 types and Gene upgrades) similarly to how Venators are currently (multiple profiles for each fighter type).
The way it was done in the old tools (and the structure is there to support it in the new) is that you have a ruleset switch in settings. This dictates what version of the gang, equipment, skills is available to select from.
Once multiple rulesets is turned on, all versions of the above are effectively global and in the case of differentiation, two versions of the gang or weapon are made, each dedicated to a specific ruleset.
Once multiple rulesets is turned on, all versions of the above are effectively global and in the case of differentiation, two versions of the gang or weapon are made, each dedicated to a specific ruleset.
So would it be possible to have the options menu have the selectors for which ruleset(s) a user would like to be available, and then at gang creation have a secondary drop down menu below the House Type selector that lists the applicable rulesets for that gang which the user then selects from?
so for example, let’s say I want to create a campaign that has a Goliath gang and an Escher gang right now, and the tools already support the new book. I would go the options section and select my rulesets- N18 and ‘House Of...’ series.
I then create my gangs. First I create my Escher gang. I go to gang create, select Escher, and on the ‘name gang’ etc screen below the name gang/type field is a ruleset drop down. This would only have N18 to select as Escher dont currently have a book of... to use. I name the gang and it is created.
Next, i select create Goliath gang, name them, and click the ruleset dropdown. This would have N18 and ‘House of...’ series as options. I select ‘house of...’ series and create the gang. This would then open all the options of house of... to the Goliaths but have n18 for Escher, two rulesets but able to be fielded in the same campaign.
Would this be at all feasible?
Also @Malo, I have a desktop pc available now so can help out with inputting any costs/lists etc into a spreadsheet in readiness for when you’re ready to pull the trigger. Anything I can do to help that is within my meagre technical means I’m more than happy to help out with 
I was thinking we possibly only needed to care about the ruleset for the gang creation, as we don't really care about it at a campaign level (yet?). The gang is basically the top level of the structure which would determine what versions of fighters, weapons, hired guns, trading post etc would be available. In which do we actually need a global Ruleset selection? It would be good simply to determine the default gang versions selected at creation.
I can't believe we're actually at a new ruleset version already with a split in player community.
Ah okay, I thought the rule set would determine the options for gangs, if it can be done from the gang creation section even better as it’d be easier to follow. Please understand we only got electricity where I live three years ago. Some of us still think it’s magic
I reckon the split is only temporary. When House of Shadows (or whatever the Delaque codex ends up being called) is released, N21 will be the one and only true Neomunda ruleset, and N18 will go the way of the dodo just like N17 before it.
But the game will be in a weird place in the mean time, since House of Chains seem to change some of the campaign/gang composition core rules (but only for Goliath gangs atm).
Not sure what will happen to the non-house gangs though (Enforcers, Venators and assorted cults). Will they get rules along the way (similar to Slave ogryn), a free pdf update, a dedicated book in 2021 Q3, or nothing? It's too early to tell.
Also, can nu-Goliath currently become chaos or genestealer-corrupted or will this require an update?
That requires all players to buy all the new books. We decided to sunset N17 because the Compendium was considered to be the final true version of Newcromunda, with the previous books purchased to apparently fund the Compendium. The "Book of..." releases are additional content, are not required for the core N18 game and doesn't replace any of the N18 content.
This is different in that the "House of..." books are effectively replacing the Compendium versions of the house gangs. However, I can't simply replace the "old" versions of house gangs with the new ones as I'd be basically shutting out a huge portion of players that have the base game. Two years from now, are they going to release yet-another-compendium-that's-definitely-what-they-consider-Necromunda? They better fucking not. But, money is god, so probably.
So for the tools, my choice is to either create a new ruleset, or we stay with one ruleset and we end up with two versions of gangs, weapons, skills etc. The latter choice is very ugly.
I don't currently have support for those gang changes in the tools.
This is kindof where I was heading...
If the campaign manager can cope with mixing gangs across two rulesets for gang creation - N18 & N21. Then I'd go for two rulesets, as campaigns are not being changed atm but if the campaign cannot be managed independently of rulesets - i.e. all gangs in the campaign have to be from the same ruleset, then this could cause issues.
At the very least you would have to import the remaining 5 gangs as is to the new ruleset and then update as the housebooks are released. I think this would be similar to how we used the legacy gangs pdf? It may commit people using the campaign on a new ruleset to update as things are released...
How tied to gang creator is the campaign manager?
The campaign structure doesn't care about rulesets, all it knows are the gangs attached to it and the territories etc. So mixing gangs from different rulesets is not an issue.
I wouldn't do that, I'd simply create a new version of the gang when it's released under the new ruleset. The legacy gangs PDF was different in that the old versions were being retired whereas the "old" versions of the house gangs are remaining in this case.
Simply put, the campaign won't be created under a specific ruleset. You'll all be free to attach whichever gangs from any ruleset to the campaign.
I had hoped the campaign manager was independent. My musing about duplicating stuff was only if it wasn't independent..
Then the answer seems to be yes a separate ruleset is the way to go..
Only problem now is what to name it
oh and implement every weird permutation they come up with...
I don't think we really have a new 'N20'. While we may have a new 'Codex' and hence new toys for each house (in time), the core game rules don't seem to be changing.
I appreciate that there may need to be some fiddling with the tools to accommodate the new stuff, but I don't (as yet) see any need for a new prefix to separate N20 discussion from N18 discussion, if anyone's actually advocating that.
I appreciate that there may need to be some fiddling with the tools to accommodate the new stuff, but I don't (as yet) see any need for a new prefix to separate N20 discussion from N18 discussion, if anyone's actually advocating that.
It's mainly about the tools support for now and how we're going to implement the house books, but there is mention of a new prefix.
The problem is going to arise more and more as house books are released and players are discussing their gangs. Is the question going to arise everyone someone posts a gang for review "original or house books"?
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