[NCE] Exploding Weapons

[undertaker]

The current NCE rules on exploding weapons seem a bit ambiguous as to whether the weapon/grenades are still usable after a Hit + Misfire is rolled on the scatter dice:

If the dice show both a Hit and Misfire then the shell explodes in the breach or the grenade goes off in the fighter's hand. The weapon explodes as described in the Exploding Weapons section. Note however it's only possible for a weapon to explode a single time.

The last sentence was probably meant to clarify the issue, but doesn't really do it.

I would have thought that the weapon would be unusable for the rest of the game. This makes sense for a grenade launcher or rocket launcher. Less so for hand grenades, but I suppose a fighter might be reluctant to throw another grenade from the same stash if the last one blew off his hand.

If that is the intended meaning of the rules, then I suggest changing the last sentence to something like:

After a weapon explodes, it is unusable for the rest of the game.

 

[SirFrog]

I think the intent is to show that even if multiple explosions are triggered by the same shot, it can only explode once.

Say you have a grenade launcher and BS3. Enemy is behind good cover on long range, resulting in you hitting on 7+.
You roll a six and then a 1, resulting in a miss.
You roll a one on your ammo roll, and a one on the explosion roll, resulting in something blowing apart in your hands.
This is treated like any other exploding weapon result, meaning the weapon is useless for the rest of the game.
Meanwhile, you do still get the shot off, though, and a lucky scatter could still do some damage, even if some other grenade exploded back at the shooter.
You roll the scatter dice, and lo and behold, you roll "On Target" and "No Scatter", triggering another exploding weapon result.

This is when that enigmatic second sentence comes in. Even if you were maximally unlucky as above, you don't resolve two weapon explosions on the shooter, only one. Note, though, that if you'd rolled anything else than what you did on the scatter, the grenade would still have scattered as normal, even if the grenade launcher exploded.

 

[undertaker]

I can see why that clause might be inserted for balance, even if it doesn't make sense mechanically. If a missile can explode twice, once in the barrel and again at the target, why can't it explode twice in the barrel?

If that is the intent of the rules, then I would suggest altering them for clarity:

A weapon can only explode once from a single shot.

It would also be nice for there to be a clarification on whether the weapon can be used after it explodes.

 

[SirFrog]

I can see why that clause might be inserted for balance, even if it doesn't make sense mechanically. If a missile can explode twice, once in the barrel and again at the target, why can't it explode twice in the barrel?

True. You could argue that the several grenades that go off simultaneously don't add so much in terms of explosive potential, but I think it's one of those cases where game balance takes precedence.

If that is the intent of the rules, then I would suggest altering them for clarity:

A weapon can only explode once from a single shot.

Agreed.

It would also be nice for there to be a clarification on whether the weapon can be used after it explodes.

The rules on exploding specifically mention that weapons that explode are not only useless for the rest of the match, but also explodes. So there's that.

 

[undertaker]

The rules on exploding specifically mention that weapons that explode are not only useless for the rest of the match, but also explodes. So there's that.

That is not true, hence why I created this thread. The rules on exploding state that if an ammo roll is failed on a 1 then the weapon is useless and might explode. In the case of a Hit + Misfire, there is no ammo roll, so that statement is bypassed. To quote the NCE:

If an Ammo dice roll is a 1 then the weapon is not only useless for the rest of the game (as a 1 will inevitably fail) but there is a chance it might explode. If the score is less than the weapon’s standard Ammo Roll rating then the weapon explodes.

If a weapon’s ammo rating is ‘auto’ then it automatically fails an Ammo roll so none is taken. However, roll a dice anyway with the weapon exploding on the roll of a 1.

An exploding weapon inflicts an automatic hit on the user as if he were struck by his own weapon but with a Strength value of 1 less than normal (the Save Modifier is also reduced if applicable). In the case of weapons that use templates, no template is used: the blast is confined solely to the firing model.

If the intention is for all exploding weapons to become useless, then such a statement should be included in the last paragraph.

 

[Ben_S]

I think it's safe to assume the intention is that an exploding weapon is useless, but I don't see anything in the rules that explicitly states this (as opposed to a failed ammo roll, which is the usual cause of explosions), so I agree it would make sense to add a sentence to that effect.

 

[undertaker]

I think it's safe to assume the intention is that an exploding weapon is useless...

Indeed, that's what I thought.

True. You could argue that the several grenades that go off simultaneously don't add so much in terms of explosive potential, but I think it's one of those cases where game balance takes precedence.

Personally I wouldn't be averse to blast weapons being able to explode twice, once from Hit + Misfire and again from a failed ammo roll followed by a 1. The chances of both happening are pretty low. In the worst case scenario, for grenades with an auto ammo roll and no Weaponsmith or Autorepairer, the chances are 1/6 x 1/6 x 1/6 x1/6 = 1/1296.

Speaking of Weaponsmith, it states that:

A model with this skill can ignore failed Ammo rolls and weapon explosions on a D6 roll of 4+.

I'm guessing that a weapon that failed its ammo roll on a 1, but was saved by the weaponsmith 4+ wouldn't need to test to explode? The alternative interpretation would be that it will need to test to explode (because a 1 was rolled) but the explosion could also be ignored on a 4+.

 

[Meavar]

Why assume it is useless?
I think the only case where it can happen without a failed ammo roll is for scattering things right?
In that case I say leave it be, and say a grenade fell and exploded, the weapon itself is still usable?
It does not mention it anywhere that the weapon is destroyed, in the flavor text it actually mentions grenades etc falling/ going of to early, but not that the gun is destroyed/ explodes. So I am not that certain that it should be useless.
One reason I have is that an exploding weapon usually still mean you hit at least once (unless you try 7+ shots). While an exploding because of scatter means no hits are caused so I say give the poor fellow another chance to shoot.