N18 Necromunda: Ash Wastes

TopsyKretts

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Anyone got a good idea about how the movement actions work? In particular, how does Drift work? Is it a sideways move? If not, why use it instead of Maneuver? And why is Maneuver limited to 90° pivots when you can pivot as many times as you want?
 
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TopsyKretts

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Ash Wastes (N22) rulebook does something right in my opinion. Under End Phase --> Fleeing the Battlefield --> Gang Hierarchy it simply shows the rule how it should be. Leaders have 12" and Champions have 6". It is however simplified in such a way that a Champion passing the Cool test can cause a Leader to automatically pass 🤔It also doesn't mention <Faction> fighter. And "fighter" is replaced with "model" so it works for vehicles too.

Do you think this takes precedence over all the exceptions in the books from 2020-2021? I would be happy to simplify this and avoid all the silly exceptions which may very likely be mistakes.
 
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TopsyKretts

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You're going to need more (excuse me for the wording) "excuses" for the Rally tests. Now updated to include "models" (to also apply for vehicles). However the Rally test (to stop being Broken) is slightly different than the Nerve test (to avoid becoming Broken). For Rally, gain +1 modifier per friendly model within 3" (not Broken or Seriously Injured). But for Nerve tests, it seems like the friendly model must be of the same type (fighter/vehicle).

Model typeRange to other modelsOther model typesLimitations
Fighter (Nerve test)3"FightersNot Broken or Seriously Injured
Fighter (Rally test)3"Fighters & VehiclesNot Broken or Seriously Injured
Vehicle (Nerve test)6"VehiclesNot Broken
Vehicle (Rally test)3"Fighteers & VehiclesNot Broken or Seriously Injured
 
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Heart of Storm

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DamianK

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So just saw they've announced a new book to go with the box set.


Looks like there is a squat gang being introduced, saw comments on Commander Cheapskates channel about the book containing "design your own vehicle" rules so all those Genestealer Cult vehicles become viable

But the book bloat of 'munda continues
Not only bloat, but the fact that just after the release of big starter, players have to buy yet another book to fully get the experience (and the rules to play the gangs they got in the starter, because it' s too much to ask for full rules in the same box the models come in).
 

cronevald

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Not only bloat, but the fact that just after the release of big starter, players have to buy yet another book to fully get the experience (and the rules to play the gangs they got in the starter, because it' s too much to ask for full rules in the same box the models come in).
This hits the nail on the head for me. I'd like to be excited for Ash Wastes but this release model is really killing my interest.
 

TopsyKretts

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What do you prefer then? Not too many options:
  1. Full game rulebook + separate Pamphlet for whatever minis are in the box
  2. Boxed game rulebook, rules for minis are in the same book
  3. Full game rulebook + expansion book(s)
 

cronevald

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What do you prefer then? Not too many options:
  1. Full game rulebook + separate Pamphlet for whatever minis are in the box
  2. Boxed game rulebook, rules for minis are in the same book
  3. Full game rulebook + expansion book(s)
What I would prefer would be something closer to the '95 release of Necromunda, which is a ship I know sailed a long time ago. What I would definitely not prefer is part of a game plus a separate book that gives you the rest of the game. But it feels like they've been doing this since the Underhive box with 3d and campaign rules separated into Gang War. I'm not opposed to supplements, I just wish they felt supplementary and not like a missing portion of the intended core game.
 
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Heart of Storm

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What do you prefer then? Not too many options:
  1. Full game rulebook + separate Pamphlet for whatever minis are in the box
  2. Boxed game rulebook, rules for minis are in the same book
  3. Full game rulebook + expansion book(s)
This sticks in the craw a little because it feels the same as pre-release DLC for a video game. The content is available, they've clearly developed the rules, it could be released in the box set, but they've chosen not to.

I expect a foundation box set like this to give me the full rules to play the game, everything in the box but also have an enduring game on the assumption I never buy anything but the box.

Everything they release after should be optional bolt on to the game, things I want to add because they're cool, not that I feel I have to add because the game feels incomplete or empty without it.
 

TopsyKretts

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I think Ash Wastes rulebook is right in not having rules for whatever minis that came with it in the box. A proper rulebook should either be separated from miniature rules or have rules for "all" miniatures.

If you feel short-changed, the best solution would be to also include the book with miniature rules in the box. But as you say, that would be a waste for whoever only have that box and never expand beyond it. I think if you only want to buy a single box and never expand, you should find another boxed game because Necromunda is not good for that purpose. Neither is Blood Bowl. They are "full games" designed for much more content than whatever is in a random box GW descides to sell at any time. Unlike the countless fire-and-forget boxes they release on a regular basis.
 

Vonvilkee

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Prospectors should have been the apposing faction to the ash waste nomads. Not more Orlocks that people already had.

This would have let them include a little pamphlet for just the models with full "histories coming soon" for both instead of having one pretty fully fleshed out (at least ground pounders / under roof dwellers) and the other basically being a pamphlet.

I hate books being replaced in part, replace the whole thing at a time or don't print it in there.
 

Jacob Dryearth

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Sep 6, 2016
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I received my Ash Wastes boxer set Friday. I have been hesitant to comment about it here, because so many people have been openly hostile towards the box and anyone buying it. Please reconsider directing such comments towards me.

Anyways, I will comment on the possibility of this book being released separately. My assessment is that it will not, and cannot in it's current form. As pointed out in the New Models thread, it has no ISBN, barcode, back cover art or text, and it contains a box contents listing in the front.

As far as the Book of Outlands containing the full vehicle rules, I seriously doubt it. Alltogether there are over 20 pages of vehicle rules, much of which is intermingled with rules for fighters in the turn sequence:

1/2 page: Fighters, Vehicles, and Models
1/4 page: Vision Arcs for Vehicles
1 page: Vehicle Status
1/2 page: Blaze for vehicles
1 page: Mounted Condition
3 pages: Vehicle Characteristics and Cards

(Then we have how vehicles factor into founding a gang, and the pre and post battle sequences. This is all covered in the FAQ and don't require reprinting)

2 pages: Vehicle Actions
1 page: Vehicle Impacts
1 Page: Vehicle Collisions
1 page: Vehicles and Difficult Terrain, fighters moving on vehicles

(Lots of scattered rules about vehicle and terrain interaction, as well as shooting, which cannot be reprinted without substantial editing)

1/2 page: Attacking Vehicles
1/2 page: Vehicles and Nerve Tests
9 pages: hits and damage against vehicles
1 page: recover and restart (intermingled fighter and vehicle rules for End Phase).
 

cronevald

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Jun 5, 2016
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I received my Ash Wastes boxer set Friday. I have been hesitant to comment about it here, because so many people have been openly hostile towards the box and anyone buying it. Please reconsider directing such comments towards me.

Anyways, I will comment on the possibility of this book being released separately. My assessment is that it will not, and cannot in it's current form. As pointed out in the New Models thread, it has no ISBN, barcode, back cover art or text, and it contains a box contents listing in the front.

As far as the Book of Outlands containing the full vehicle rules, I seriously doubt it. Alltogether there are over 20 pages of vehicle rules, much of which is intermingled with rules for fighters in the turn sequence:

1/2 page: Fighters, Vehicles, and Models
1/4 page: Vision Arcs for Vehicles
1 page: Vehicle Status
1/2 page: Blaze for vehicles
1 page: Mounted Condition
3 pages: Vehicle Characteristics and Cards

(Then we have how vehicles factor into founding a gang, and the pre and post battle sequences. This is all covered in the FAQ and don't require reprinting)

2 pages: Vehicle Actions
1 page: Vehicle Impacts
1 Page: Vehicle Collisions
1 page: Vehicles and Difficult Terrain, fighters moving on vehicles

(Lots of scattered rules about vehicle and terrain interaction, as well as shooting, which cannot be reprinted without substantial editing)

1/2 page: Attacking Vehicles
1/2 page: Vehicles and Nerve Tests
9 pages: hits and damage against vehicles
1 page: recover and restart (intermingled fighter and vehicle rules for End Phase).
While I've been critical of the box, or specifically the book within the box, I appreciate the rundown and would never think to criticize someone for buying the box. Apologies if I've given that impression. I do feel rather strongly that if the Ash Wastes game is one where you add vehicles to your gang there should be rules to cover that in the box. If the full rules must be separated into their own supplement at least provide a makeshift version so players can get up and running with existing vehicles and conversions while waiting for the more detailed version.
 

DamianK

Ganger
Nov 15, 2020
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What do you prefer then? Not too many options:
  1. Full game rulebook + separate Pamphlet for whatever minis are in the box
  2. Boxed game rulebook, rules for minis are in the same book
  3. Full game rulebook + expansion book(s)
How about this crazy idea:

Have two books in the box - one is just pure full core game rules (moving, shooting, dealing with vehicles), second just pure full rules, fluff, campaign for the two factions that are in the box.

This does a few things:
1) allows to release just full core rules separately, for anyone who doesn`t need/want models, but wants to have updated, errata`d, faq`ed full version of just core rules
2) New players get literally everything they need to start playing in one box, instead of some beta rules, after which they have to buy even more rules, isntead of say, something cooler like more models?
3) As more models (vehicles, new gangs) come out, they come out along with relevant rules (supplements) and everyone can happily buy what they need there and now, instead of having to buy books to "unlock" full content for the stuff they already bought earlier


What we have now is:
1) Cool big box with bunch of models, but only "beta" rules:
A) if I`m not interested in models, but want updated, errata`d, etc. rules, I`m shafted, because they are locked behind big box and I have to buy just the rules second hand on fb/ebay/whatever else 3rd party that is not gw
B) If I`m interested in everything, I`m still shafted and have to spend more money on another separate book, while still needing what is in the boxed book
C) If I`m a new player I have to spend a singificant amount of money on a box, which is great to start, but if I want to go deeper, I have to pay even more for another book, and if the box set didn`t get me hooked, well that`s a lot of cash spent and very little saving on not having the full rules already in the box (compared to if GW went with the crazy idea above)
 

TopsyKretts

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How about this crazy idea:

Have two books in the box - one is just pure full core game rules (moving, shooting, dealing with vehicles), second just pure full rules, fluff, campaign for the two factions that are in the box.
The kill team way :D
 
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MusingWarboss

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Have two books in the box - one is just pure full core game rules (moving, shooting, dealing with vehicles), second just pure full rules, fluff, campaign for the two factions that are in the box.
I would love an actual Rulebook. Y’know a book full of rules. No fluff. Because that fluff is just padding and once you’ve read it (if you ever fully do) it’s most likely just ignored but you’ve still gotta drag it around.

I bet out of the current library you could trim its physical space in half if you just had rules in there.

The fluff can exist in a separate book.

I bet there’s a market for just-rules Paperbacks out there with GW games. But we all know the plush Hardback jammed full of pages of (let’s face it) fiction allows them to bump up the price tag per book.
 

DamianK

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Nov 15, 2020
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The kill team way :D
Pretty much, yes! I've been cheking out KT lately and I like what GW is doing there. Considering that each box for KT since 2021 edition is a separate "killzone" with fluff and rules specific for that setting and included factions, I could see something like that working for necro with all the planned settings (ash wastes, eye of seline, etc.)