NCE Necromunda Community Edition

Blood Donor

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Van Saar are technofiles though so maybe it were designed to represent their ability to obtain more tech stuff rather than a crafted weapon? Im not too invested in the logic as any scrap metal with a sharpened edge swashbuckled around the place could constitute a sword, but I think it was an attempt to give them a more tech-focused identity right from gang creation.
 
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Ben_S

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However in the spirit of the NCE how about the PDF page numbers are in burgundy text. To indicate they’ve been modified from the original?
That wouldn't make any real difference, if the original is removed.

I see the value in adding something (page numbers corresponding to the PDF) that some players may find handy, but I'm wary of removing something (page numbers that stick to the original) that some players may also find useful.

That said, I think I've seen PDFs that are more intelligent about page numbering - for instance, books with introductory pages i-vi or whatever (Roman numerals) then 'real' pages starting from 1, but where the PDF has the same numbering, so 2 would take you to p. 2, not p. ii.

I'm not even sure I've explained that clearly, or whether it is possible, and I certainly haven't the foggiest how to do it. But, if this were doable, would that address everyone's issues? Selecting p. 74 would take you to the one with p. 74 on, even if it's actually only 58th in the file.
 

MusingWarboss

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Oct 31, 2013
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I think the reason that I encountered this was that the initial links weren’t clickable. It’s the electronic age after all!

So failing that I defaulted to just going to the page listed - of course I expected the page numbers to corroborate!

I’ll leave it to Tiny to decide what to do.
 

Fold

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Oct 26, 2013
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Ben, what is the use case you’re imagining where some players will find it useful to have original numbering?

I admit beyond some occasional references from other documents, I am struggling! And that seems quite a corner case.

Though saying that, if the contents (and any references throughout the document) are made clickable then probably most issues are resolved without needing to renumber.
 
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Blood Donor

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...if the contents (and any references throughout the document) are made clickable then probably most issues are resolved without needing to renumber.
But it cant be counted on that nobody will print it, so if they are renumbered hyperlinks then it would make everybody's day better. There is always the LRB that can be downloaded if players need to lust over the original page numbering.

IF the pages are hyperlinked, what about a table of contents page at the beginning?
 

MusingWarboss

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I can't reply direct @Ben_S so it'll have to be here: I meant the Table of Contents page. I can't remember if it was clickable before or not, in fact I had to download this version because my last one was out of date.

At some point in the NCE evolution the TOC has been condensed down, I noticed looking at the LRB I have that it used to be much more itemised but now just points to the master section rather than individual rules under each section too.
 

MusingWarboss

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Yep, I'll sort that. Bugs me too but forgot about it.

If anyone spots any page references in the text (i.e. "see page 74" as opposed to ones on the contents page) please post them here so I can change them as it'll save me time going through the whole document.
Well, as I'm probably being cursed for mentioning the numbering I may as well go all out!

Using a recursive search for "Page" these are the references to page numbers I can find in-document.

‘Playing a Campaign Game’ section (see page 109)
- gets referred to twice on PDF pg 33

To start the campaign two players simply take their
gangs and select one of the scenarios to fight (see
page 109)
- PDF pg 63

The Playing a Campaign Game section (page 109)
includes full details of the Experience points that can
be earned for each scenario.
- PDF pg 66

As fighters earn more Experience points they are
entitled to make Advance rolls. The table on page 86
shows how many Experience points a fighter must
earn before he can make a further roll.
- PDF pg 66

These restriction are indicated on the Skill
tables on page 88.
- PDF pg 68

Every gang begins with five territories generated from
the Territory table (see page 94). Some scenarios
allow gangs to gain extra territory or lose it to their
rivals (see page 109). The more and better territory a
gang has the richer it will become.

To generate a random territory from the Territory
table on pages 94-95, roll two dice.
- triple mention on PDF pg 73

6: One in a Million Weapon (see page 54)
- PDF pg 78

If the Hired Gun is killed or was forced to miss the
game (as described in the Missing Games section on
page 83) then understandably he does not have to be
paid for his services that game.
- PDF pg 81

That's all I can find using that method.
 

undertaker

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I think I would prefer to keep the original page numbers as they were printed in the book, but just make any references elsewhere into hyperlinks. For example, if it says "One in a Million Weapon (see page 54)" then that would be a hyperlink to page 78 in the PDF, at the bottom of which would be written "54".
 

undertaker

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Sadly, the house weapon lists are "thematic" but not very balanced. The chances of getting a consensus among the Tribe to change the NCE and make them more balanced is slim. It would be easier to just agree some house rules among your gaming group if you want to change the HWL. Whatever you decide, there will no doubt be some interested individuals here that may want to do the same, so please share your thoughts and playtest experience. You could even go the whole distance and rework the HWL entirely and post it up in the Vault for all to use! :)
 
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undertaker

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@Tiny is it time for the annual NCE update?

The list of outstanding topics for discussion:
- Do hiding rules require further work?
Don't recall what the issue with hiding was. Is it that you currently can't charge hidden fighters? I think in most situations being able to charge hidden is good, otherwise the defender can just move 4" and hide behind a barrel to avoid it, which seems a bit daft. If they don't want to get charged they should go on overwatch or get out of charge range.

- Change Settlement to not give free Gangers to Pit Slaves?
Since they don't have a Juve equivalent it would seem logical not to give them anything free from Settlements.
Like other Outlaw gangs, they should probably have a little Territory section in their description for this.

- Auto Repairer - Add value to rating? Cost too cheap now less easy to destroy?
I'm all in favour of adding its value to the gang rating.
Might also be good to add a note to the a Raid scenario, such that the Auto Repairer suffered the same damage as the Territory (D6 1-4: Damaged for 1 game, 5: Damaged for D3 games, 6: Destroyed).

- Wounding Hit XP - Should be XP only from hits that wound, not per wound caused.
Hmm, not sure about this one. Changing it to "hits that wound" would incentivise shooting downed fighters to farm XP, which I'm not in favour of.

- Look at Caravan scenario. Rewards too high. Possible time limit for attackers.
Time limit for attackers seems sensible. I don't think there is any other scenario that has a turn limit, so having one would be an interesting change. Maybe instead of having a turn limit just subtract 1 from the end looting roll for each turn played?

- Treacherous conditions - Too many detrimental to shooting heavy gangs.
Shooting is a bit dominant in NCE, so I'm OK with leaving them as they are.

- Win conditions for Caravan & The Hit
The gang that does not bottle wins for the purposes of Giant Killer bonus and XP.

- Check all HWL are appropriate & reasonably balanced.
Swords for Goliaths, so I can finally use my old plastic minis? 😁
 

Tiny

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@Tiny is it time for the annual NCE update?
It is indeed. Got some time off over the Christmas holidays so plan to get it done then.

Hmm, not sure about this one. Changing it to "hits that wound" would incentivise shooting downed fighters to farm XP, which I'm not in favour of.
It wouldn't count downed fighters. The same as currently.

Swords for Goliaths, so I can finally use my old plastic minis? 😁
No! Bad Undertaker!

You know that mini has a knife, not a sword.

Some other stuff...
I honestly can't remember what all the points were.... I'll need to go back through the whole thread.

Thanks for your ongoing assistance. :)
 

Stoof

Yakmarines 2nd Co. Word Priest
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I think hiding might be ok now that it requires full cover (formerly partial) and you can't shoot in the turn you hid. I haven't played any very hidey games since it changed though. We might need clarification that if you started the game hidden (like in Ambush) you can shoot first turn if you want. Probably put that in the scenario rather than main rules though since it only affects a couple of scanarios (it might even be just the one).

I admit I don't quite follow the wounds one.

The rest... no strong opinions. As a mainly shooty player I'm cool with treacherous conditions mainly penalising shooting. That's pretty realistic tbh.
 

Tiny

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Another issue I discovered last night while looking through OCE...

Ratskin Totem Warriors are sh*te value for money. Basically you're paying for a ganger with 2 pre-chosen levels (+1T and I) that can't go to the trading post or use non-primitive ranged weapons but take Ld tests on 3D6 dropping the highest dice. They could do with a bit of a boost. Any thoughts?
 
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undertaker

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It wouldn't count downed fighters. The same as currently.
I think it was just clarification that if you hit a 1-wound model with a single shot that causes say 3 wounds, rolling 2 Flesh Wounds and a Down, you should only gain 5xp as opposed to 15
Yeah flesh wounds are a bit of an oddity in that regard. What about weapons that cause multiple wounds? Would they give just 5 XP if one hit took both wounds from a 2-wound model?

We might need clarification that if you started the game hidden (like in Ambush) you can shoot first turn if you want. Probably put that in the scenario rather than main rules though since it only affects a couple of scanarios (it might even be just the one).
I'd put that in the main rules. Many people make custom scenarios, so it would be nice to make it general.

Ratskin Totem Warriors are sh*te value for money. Basically you're paying for a ganger with 2 pre-chosen levels (+1T and I) that can't go to the trading post or use non-primitive ranged weapons but take Ld tests on 3D6 dropping the highest dice. They could do with a bit of a boost. Any thoughts?
Seems fine to me. I'd happily pay 80 credits to have some of my close-combat honchos start with T4 I4. Toughness is one of the better advances, and to have it from the start is pretty advantageous.
 
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Tiny

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Yeah flesh wounds are a bit of an oddity in that regard. What about weapons that cause multiple wounds? Would they give just 5 XP if one hit took both wounds from a 2-wound model?
It should be easy enough to caveat that a single shot cannot gain more "wounding hits" than the target has wounds to lose. A W2 fighter could therefore grant 10xp... if that is desirable? Alternatively just one "wounding hit" per actual hit may be preferred. I'm not sure.

Seems fine to me. I'd happily pay 80 credits to have some of my close-combat honchos start with T4 I4. Toughness is one of the better advances, and to have it from the start is pretty advantageous.
As the main replacement for heavies, which Ratskins can't have, I find them a little lacklustre. If they started at WS4 instead of T4 I could see the point in them. As they are I'd rather just take more basic Ratskins and hope for some WS/BS increases. Compare them to a Pit Fighter from the Pit Slaves list and they're pretty awful.

EDIT: The original Fanatic Magazine Totem Warriors were WS4, T4 & I4, BS2 and immune to psychology for 85 credits. Much more useful. Although the Fanatic version didn't have a Shaman option. Perhaps make the Totem Warriors WS4 but make them 0-2 instead of 0-4 and start them at 60+D6xp?
 
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undertaker

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It should be easy enough to caveat that a single shot cannot gain more "wounding hits" than the target has wounds to lose. A W2 fighter could therefore grant 10xp... if that is desirable? Alternatively just one "wounding hit" per actual hit may be preferred. I'm not sure.
Generally I'm OK with FW giving XP. However if you want to change it so they don't it should be changed from:
+5 Per Wounding Hit: A fighter earns 5 points for
each wounding hit he inflicts during the battle.
to something like
+5 Per Wounding Hit: A fighter earns 5 points for
each wound inflicted on an enemy during the battle,
not counting Flesh Wounds.
Regarding Ratskins, I don't really have much experience with them. They are all hard to kill because they get a re-roll on the injury table, so maybe that pushes their base price up.

The Pit Fighter vs Totem Warrior... hmm... :unsure:
Maybe the Pit Fighter should be 80 credits?
 

Scavvierising

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Another issue I discovered last night while looking through OCE...

Ratskin Totem Warriors are sh*te value for money. Basically you're paying for a ganger with 2 pre-chosen levels (+1T and I) that can't go to the trading post or use non-primitive ranged weapons but take Ld tests on 3D6 dropping the highest dice. They could do with a bit of a boost. Any thoughts?
20 extra credit for 2advances and a special rule that all enhance your combat ganger's ability to get into combat some way or another. Less likely to be downed more likely to recover from pinning while not falling of as many walkways and less likely to do a runner when you gun his mates down. Seems fine to me when you think of their cumulative effects on your ability to get in skull cracking range.