NCE Necromunda Community Edition

Scavvierising

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When a fighter makes a shooting attack (no matter how many shots are fired from sustained fire or shooting skills) or fights a round of close combat. The fighter can only gain XP for causing wounds up to as many times as the targets number of wounds.
(EDIT) At the time the attack is declared


Would this be an acceptable way to do wounding hit xp.
It covers multiple damage weapons, multiple shots and CC all in one.

Just did a bit of an edit abto clarify it a bit more. Not sure how to put a line through things so just rewrote it. And then added a bit more on the end the 2nd time
 
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undertaker

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OK. Ignore what I said earlier today, the current NCE wording is pretty comprehensive with regards to CC and multi-wound weapons:

WOUNDING HIT AWARDS
Gang fighters earn +5 Experience points for inflicting
an unsaved wounding hit on an enemy model.

Fighters don't receive this award if the hit roll failed
or if the target has zero Wounds. For example, blasts
that scattered or shooting down models won't count.

If a model with at least 1 Wounds is 'finished off' in
base contact, such as a webbed model, then it will
confer a wounding hit award.

If a template weapon hits then all models wounded in
the blast confer wounding hit awards.

Weapons that inflict multiple Damage score an award
for each wound inflicted until the model is reduced
to zero Wounds.

In hand-to-hand combat each wound inflicted confers
an award until the model is reduced to zero Wounds.
Just the first paragraph needs clarifying a bit to say:
"for each wound inflicted on an enemy, not counting Flesh Wounds".
 

Scavvierising

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OK. Ignore what I said earlier today, the current NCE wording is pretty comprehensive with regards to CC and multi-wound weapons:



Just the first paragraph needs clarifying a bit to say:
"for each wound inflicted on an enemy, not counting Flesh Wounds".
Why would you not get Xp for a wound that inflicts a flesh wound but gain Xp from taking a fighter from 2 to 1 wounds?
 
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Scavvierising

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OK. Ignore what I said earlier today, the current NCE wording is pretty comprehensive with regards to CC and multi-wound weapons:



Just the first paragraph needs clarifying a bit to say:
"for each wound inflicted on an enemy, not counting Flesh Wounds".
Sorry do you mean you don't get Xp against enemies who are carrying flesh wounds?
 

undertaker

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Well, that's what we are discussing. Should FW count?

Some people think they should, as that's the way the rules are currently worded and the way they've been playing for years.

Others think it would be simpler if FW did not count, because then you could roll all the wound dice together and the order does not matter. Also giving someone a FW does not represent as much of an achievent as taking them down or OOA, so maybe should not give XP.
 

Scavvierising

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Well, that's what we are discussing. Should FW count?

Some people think they should, as that's the way the rules are currently worded and the way they've been playing for years.

Others think it would be simpler if FW did not count, because then you could roll all the wound dice together and the order does not matter. Also giving someone a FW does not represent as much of an achievent as taking them down or OOA, so maybe should not give XP.
I mean, whether causing a FW counts as causing a Wound for the purposes of XP.
OK I'm for flesh wounds giving Xp as it could lead to a situation where reducing the number of wounds someone has gains Xp but inflicting a flesh wound doesn't. Which kind of feels odd to me. If you cap the amount of Xp awards to the number of wounds a fighter has, as has been done for CC and multiple damage attacks (just need to get multiple shots in there). You would be fine to roll all your wound rolls as one.
I've looked at the beginning of this discussion and a bit at the end so if I'm going over old ground covered in the middle don't mind me I'm going to have a more extensive trawl through it now.
 

Fold

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Removing XP from flesh wounds would certainly not be something I could support.

I don’t know if the scope of the NCE has changed since stewardship has changed hands but when I was more actively involved in proposing and reviewing edits, the scope was purely about balance and clarity. Changing what type of hits gain XP is neither of those things.
 

Scavvierising

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Removing XP from flesh wounds would certainly not be something I could support.

I don’t know if the scope of the NCE has changed since stewardship has changed hands but when I was more actively involved in proposing and reviewing edits, the scope was purely about balance and clarity. Changing what type of hits gain XP is neither of those things.
Agree Xp on flesh wounds isn't causing Xp to spiral of of control or cause any complications in gameplay or balance. So should be left alone in the spirit of NCE. Of course as usual gaming groups are as free to house rule it same as they would any other ststem
 

Ben_S

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Well, that's what we are discussing. Should FW count?
It's not really about Flesh Wounds at all, as far as I can see. The main point was that someone with one wound should only provide 5xp. From that perspective, it doesn't really matter whether you score 1 Down and 2 FWs or 3x Down.

It should be easy enough to caveat that a single shot cannot gain more "wounding hits" than the target has wounds to lose. A W2 fighter could therefore grant 10xp... if that is desirable? Alternatively just one "wounding hit" per actual hit may be preferred. I'm not sure.
I'm sure I've said this before, but it's one thing I never really understood or liked about NCE changes. It used to be that you got xp for wounding hits. Granted, there was probably clarification necessary. Somehow though NCE changed the xp from hits-provided-you-wound to wounds-provided-they-come-from-hits. I don't think you should get a ton of xp just for hitting someone once with a meltagun. Indeed, even if they have 3W, it's not obvious it should be more than 5xp.

I'd be ok with excluding any xp for hitting fighters already Down, although I wouldn't mind including that - they're still no easier to hit/wound (with shooting this is).
 

undertaker

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OK I'm for flesh wounds giving Xp as it could lead to a situation where reducing the number of wounds someone has gains Xp but inflicting a flesh wound doesn't. Which kind of feels odd to me. If you cap the amount of Xp awards to the number of wounds a fighter has, as has been done for CC and multiple damage attacks (just need to get multiple shots in there). You would be fine to roll all your wound rolls as one.
I don't think that would fix it. Now that I read it again, even the current wording for multiple damage and CC is ambiguous.
Weapons that inflict multiple Damage score an award
for each wound inflicted until the model is reduced
to zero Wounds.
On the surface that seems fine, but then under Flesh Wound is says:

Flesh Wound
If a model only sustains a flesh wound then he
suffers a mild injury and is able to fight on. His
Wounds value is reinstated to 1 and he can move
and act as normal.
So the XP rule can be interpreted as either:
  1. Get +5 XP until the first time the model is reduced to zero wounds. This situation would be a bit weird, since the fighter could still be standing after suffering a FW, but any further wounds would not grant XP. However, in this situation you could roll all the injury dice at once.
  2. Get +5 XP each time the model is reduced to zero wounds. This is how I think most people play it, but does require the injury dice to be rolled sequentially, since FW-FW-Dwon would give +15 XP, but Down-FW-FW would only give +5. Potentially a model with WS6/BS6 and W1 can give up to 30XP. This isn't really a balance issue, it just seems a bit odd.
 

undertaker

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I'd be ok with excluding any xp for hitting fighters already Down, although I wouldn't mind including that - they're still no easier to hit/wound (with shooting this is).
I think the reason you shouldn't get XP for shooting at downed fighters is because they are not mobile or a threat. You could just set a pack of juves on one downed model, and let them get a ton of XP just by shooting at short range with autopistols. The downed fighter presents no danger, so it's no better than target practice, which they can do at home in their spare time.
 

Ben_S

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  1. Get +5 XP each time the model is reduced to zero wounds. This is how I think most people play it, but does require the injury dice to be rolled sequentially, since FW-FW-Dwon would give +15 XP, but Down-FW-FW would only give +5. Potentially a model with WS6/BS6 and W1 can give up to 30XP. This isn't really a balance issue, it just seems a bit odd.
I'm pretty sure that's not the intention, but maybe this can be fixed by clarifying p. 17, which doesn't say when the fighter is restored to one wound. I wouldn't have assumed it's between dice rolls in a single attack. Maybe if we just said something like 'at the end of the phase' then that would prevent any kind of overkilling going on, from one attack or indeed several in the same phase. That may avoid need to fiddle further with the xp rules (not that I'm against amending/clarifying them).
 

Scavvierising

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I don't think that would fix it. Now that I read it again, even the current wording for multiple damage and CC is ambiguous.


On the surface that seems fine, but then under Flesh Wound is says:



So the XP rule can be interpreted as either:
  1. Get +5 XP until the first time the model is reduced to zero wounds. This situation would be a bit weird, since the fighter could still be standing after suffering a FW, but any further wounds would not grant XP. However, in this situation you could roll all the injury dice at once.
  2. Get +5 XP each time the model is reduced to zero wounds. This is how I think most people play it, but does require the injury dice to be rolled sequentially, since FW-FW-Dwon would give +15 XP, but Down-FW-FW would only give +5. Potentially a model with WS6/BS6 and W1 can give up to 30XP. This isn't really a balance issue, it just seems a bit odd.
CC rules have you rolling all wound rolls then saves then role injury roles. Pg 22 procedure table. If you apply the Xp between stages 6+7 (saves and injury dice) there should be no issue. This is how I have always played it.
 

Tiny

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20 extra credit for 2advances and a special rule that all enhance your combat ganger's ability to get into combat some way or another. Less likely to be downed more likely to recover from pinning while not falling of as many walkways and less likely to do a runner when you gun his mates down. Seems fine to me when you think of their cumulative effects on your ability to get in skull cracking range.
I just know I would never take one as they are now. No ability to look for rare trade, in a gang that doesn’t get the usual d3 rare rolls plus cant work territory, plus cant take non primitive guns means I’d just take more ratskins.

I mean, whether causing a FW counts as causing a Wound for the purposes of XP.
FW should absolutely count for wounding hits. The only case where they shouldn’t is:
W1 model gets hit with lascannon that rolls 3 damage. First point of damage causes an injury roll, it’s a FW. Model regains 1W. 2nd point of damage also causes an injury roll, again it’s a FW. Model regains 1W. Third point of damage causes an injury roll, this time rolls a down result. Model firing the shot should absolutely not get 15xp.
 
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undertaker

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I'm pretty sure that's not the intention, but maybe this can be fixed by clarifying p. 17, which doesn't say when the fighter is restored to one wound. I wouldn't have assumed it's between dice rolls in a single attack. Maybe if we just said something like 'at the end of the phase' then that would prevent any kind of overkilling going on, from one attack or indeed several in the same phase.
Restoring them to 1W 'at the end of the phase' would be a bit weird. You know that fighter will get back up with 1W, but shooting them or hitting them some more gives no XP benefit this round even though they are effectively just pinned. Also, what if they fail a nerve test while on 0W with a FW, do they crawl as if they were Down, or run like normal?

If you clarify in the Flesh Wound section that the wound is restored when the current attack is over, then you also have to clarify what constitutes an 'attack'. Presumably that being a single die-roll that wounds. Thus one hit from a Lascannon would be an 'attack', but 3 shots from a Heavy Stubber would be 3 separate 'attacks'.
I would be OK with this TBF, as long as it is clear.

EDIT: Just make it "after the wounding hit is resolved" that should be unambiguous.
 

Scavvierising

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Another issue I discovered last night while looking through OCE...

Ratskin Totem Warriors are sh*te value for money. Basically you're paying for a ganger with 2 pre-chosen levels (+1T and I) that can't go to the trading post or use non-primitive ranged weapons but take Ld tests on 3D6 dropping the highest dice. They could do with a bit of a boost. Any thoughts?
You can still forage at least while they might not be an auto include I think they have their role and a lot of people will be up for taking them. If they were an obvious why would anyone not take these guy's then you have gone to far with them. But the lack of good guns does make you think about it.
 

Scavvierising

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Really it's only sustained shooting and gunfighter that causes a problem as shots are fully resolved one at a time. So something like Iike what I mentioned above should clarify things all round and as you drop 2 paragraphs to add this one itshouldn't bloat things.
When a fighter makes a shooting attack (no matter how many shots are fired from sustained fire or shooting skills) or fights a round of close combat. The fighter can only gain XP for causing wounds up to as many times as the targets number of wounds.

But with. At the time the attack is declared. Bolted on the end
 

undertaker

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So at which point would you reset the wound from a Flesh Wound?

At the moment, with Gunfighter each shot is declared separately, with the second being optional after the first is resolved. So if the first shot caused a FW, and the second caused Down, would you call that +5 XP or +10 XP?
 
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