NCE Necromunda Community Edition

[Stoof]

Just because he didn't make it to the table doesn't mean he wasn't trying to rush to the scene with the other reinforcements - he just didn't make it in time. You pay him anyway. It's a risk you take with hired guns - I can't think of anyone arguing to the contrary before.

(Edit - I posted this then several recent posts appeared, so I missed a chunk.)

 

[MusingWarboss]

Well that was an interesting read. I think a lot of people missed the following payment after first game. I never intend on having them around that long.

There's an argument to be made for that the retainer fee should be applied after every battle no matter if they appeared on the table or not.

This is how I've always seen it. You pay for a service, if you don't use it they still want to get paid what you owe them.

I just assumed you were hiring someone to rough over the opposition, or who had some skills you’d like to utilise briefly. So you stuffed a bit of cash in their direction, if you wanted them around longer you paid again.

What you’re both describing sounds more like we’ve had a visit from the local big boss and he wants us to pay his protection racket!!

 

[Ben_S]

Remind me, are there any skills or special rules that hired guns could have that has a out-of-table effect? If so, would you pay the retainer fee if you made use of those features?

Again, the Ratskin Scout's ability to hunt for territory.

If you didn't pay him for not appearing on the table, it would open up the question whether you can then still send him exploring or not.

I agree with what seems to be the majority. Each game represents a period of time (and chance to gain income), so you pay the hired gun for each game, whatever he does or doesn't do. If you a hire a contractor, but don't give them any/enough work, that's on you - you still have to pay for their time.

 

[JawRippa]

I think that you pay a HG once and then pre-battle decide to use him or not. If you do, they go into your starting squad, possibly breaking scenario crew limitations. If you chose not to, they remain unactivated (you can keep a HG for a while this way, they do not increase your gang rating). If HG has any post-battle skills, they are only used if they've taken part in a battle. Narratively you've paid them in advance to come to your side, "when the time is right".

I think anything else makes HG too unattractive of a choice since you'd rather spend money on improving your gang for the rest of the campaign.

 

[machineghost]

For the people wanting to get rid of the "double payment", I will point out it's been a part of the game since it first debuted (even if many didn't notice it).

Personally I've always viewed the first payment as the recruitment fee. Hired Guns aren't just lining up to be purchased at HiredMart: you have to go around buying drinks at a bunch of seedy (and I'm talking seedy for Necromunda) bars, talking to Ratskins/Bounty Hunters/Scum/whatever until you find one that is willing to work for your gang.

The "pre-battle" (technically post-battle, but before you use them) hire fee for a Hired Gun seems meant to cover the costs of just finding your HG and getting him to come back to your gang's HQ. Then, after each battle the HG is part of your gang (whether or not they made it to a given fight) so you pay them, because you promised to.

 

[Tiny]

I'd be inclined to agree that was the original intent, and had it not already been FAQ'd by the Necromunda Rules Committee back in 2005 then I'd consider it, but as it has been FAQ'd in the past, goes against the way almost everyone plays it, and only really serves to make life more confusing, I think it's best to clarify it as per the 2005 ruling.

It just makes life easier for everyone if you just pay them once before each game and removes the entire "what if I spend all my credits before I have to pay" question.

The "finder's fee" compounded with not gaining XP, having limited weapons and having to pay them even if they don't fight would just make hired guns even less worthwhile.

 

[Ben_S]

I always assumed the intent was that you pay X+1 lots of hiring fee for X games. But it doesn't always work out like that, e.g. if they die. (I assume you don't need to pay them then!)

Just paying once per game (after one, for the next) also makes sense and keeps things relatively simple.

 

[ClockworkOrange]

On the yo-yo thing, in this particular case we have a campaign event, where the gang with the highest increase at the end of the event gets a new territory

Based on your interpretation, it sounds like we can all hire Hired Guns, paying only their initial fee, and then (post-event) use up our credits such that we don't have to pay our HGs a second time ... and all this works despite the rule about "must pay the hire fee for the Hired Gun when he is recruited and subsequently after each battle including the first"?

I’ve remembered why my first response effectively was no mate! that’s not on! I’d want your gang rating after all post battle rolls, trading etc and all added up ready to play the next game. If you‘ve hired a load after your final game and added them to the rosta then I suppose it’s ok assuming the campaign continues at a later date. But, it all seems a bit cheesy and needs house ruling along with your free territory rule to stop it being abused in unforeseen ways. You are effectively multiplying any remaining stash by 5 and adding it to your rosta by doing it.

 

[machineghost]

I'd be inclined to agree that was the original intent, and had it not already been FAQ'd by the Necromunda Rules Committee back in 2005 then I'd consider it, but as it has been FAQ'd in the past, goes against the way almost everyone plays it, and only really serves to make life more confusing, I think it's best to clarify it as per the 2005 ruling.

Do you mean this, https://yaktribe.games/community/vault/necromunda-rules-review-2005.644/ I didn't see anything about Hired Guns in it.

 

[Tiny]

I mean the one @ClockworkOrange linked above.

 

[Ben_S]

It's a bit of a tangent, but looking through that document there are some really odd rulings.

p. 27:

p. 24:

 

[Stoof]

Isn't there a much, much older FAQ ruling that you get half of what you paid for your free knife - zero. No point in trying to sell it.

 

[Ben_S]

No idea. But I have long puzzled why people think half credits need rounding (up or down).

 

[Tiny]

Isn't there a much, much older FAQ ruling that you get half of what you paid for your free knife - zero. No point in trying to sell it.

This is how I would rule it.

I'd rather rule that a fighter can never (ever) be parted from his free knife. It can't be taken if captured or lost if disarmed as it simply represents any small item used as a close combat weapon.

But actually if I was writing it from scratch I'd ditch the free knife entirely and put in an "improvised weapon" profile for people who don't have a CC weapon.

But the first one is easiest to work with the rules we've got.

No idea. But I have long puzzled why people think half credits need rounding (up or down).

P5 NCE says always round fractions up when dividing anything.

 

[ntw3001]

Yeah, I'd prefer 'improvised weapon', and the knife could just exist as a cheap way to get a second attack in melee. But since that doesn't leave much of a use case and a lot of models are carrying them, I'd just rule that the starting knife can't be removed in any way. Underhivers need their knives, they're not gonna sell them!

 

[MusingWarboss]

The whole “sell your free knife” always sounded very… suspect.

Looking at the models I’d think that the free one was always a kind of improvised shank rather than a nicely crafted one and the purchasable one was a higher quality knife, like a Bowie.

Selling your shank is pointless, no one wants a bit of broken glass wedged into a stick, they can make their own for free.
Ergo, you can’t even give that thing away.

In game terms it just makes it simpler if you stop people trying to game the system for credits from nowhere.