N18 Need help countering tactics

Apr 4, 2018
139
102
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Bristol, UK
The problem with that is it requires the 'master deck' to be present at all games.

My campaign rules that each player built a deck of 20 cards at the beginning of the campaign, and that's their deck for the duration.
It means random cards are more likely to be useful, and prevents every player having to lug around 40+ cards that they own.
I believe for next campaign we're thinking of using the draw X+2, discard 2 rule choosing cards in future.
I like the system, but I still think it needs something to tone back the worst cards.
For example history of violence or pitfall are neither fun nor smart to use.
It also further benefits those who can afford to buy every deck to keep the 1-2 good cards in their 20.
 
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Thorgor

Of The YAQ
Oct 12, 2015
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I agree with Kiro. I'd rather have each player bring their own deck of cards and have real deck-building rules, and a banlist (with brainless spoilers like History of violence and Dangerous footing being prime targets for either a ban or a huge nerf).

Even though your group may be happy with it Topsy, I wouldn't say you "solved" the problem as much as you diluted it so much that it's barely noticeable. Broken cards are still broken and will still spoil your fun, they are just less likely to show up. That's rarity-based 'balance' and I never liked that.
I completely agree with turning the cards into a free MtG-sized resource though. Official cards are impractical (and lack errata), and pay-to-win is a sad sad way to conduct business.
 

enyoss

Gang Hero
Tribe Council
Jul 19, 2015
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The problem with that is it requires the 'master deck' to be present at all games.

My campaign rules that each player built a deck of 20 cards at the beginning of the campaign, and that's their deck for the duration.
It means random cards are more likely to be useful, and prevents every player having to lug around 40+ cards that they own.
I believe for next campaign we're thinking of using the draw X+2, discard 2 rule choosing cards in future.
I like the system, but I still think it needs something to tone back the worst cards.
For example history of violence or pitfall are neither fun nor smart to use.
It also further benefits those who can afford to buy every deck to keep the 1-2 good cards in their 20.
We simply banned HoV and DF - nobody missed them.

Apart from those the rest are manageable enough that rarity based balance would work for me. It’s the combos which are particularly nasty, and where you have to play your game every game preparing for them. Rarity based balance at least gets rid of that, and I wouldn’t be too fussed when they eventually showed up if I didn’t have the perpetual anxiety in between.
 
Apr 4, 2018
139
102
43
Bristol, UK
I also don't like Delaque's pitch black card.
It would be alright if it just lasted a round, but instead the card is likely to last the entire game.

I agree that most cards are alright, although even once you remove the ''broken' cards each pack still only had 1-3 cards which are definitely the most useful.
Although it's true that they tend to be manageable until combos appear.

As an idea, how about when a generic card is played, rather than being discarded it is added to your opponent's hand for the remainder of the game.
That way you allow everyone to use the best cards, and add the additional dynamic of whether or not the card is worth using Vs giving it to your opponent.
 

KA7777

Ganger
Jan 19, 2018
100
70
28
Canada
I also don't like Delaque's pitch black card.
It would be alright if it just lasted a round, but instead the card is likely to last the entire game.
I have a friend who is hinting that he'll be spamming this in our new campaign -- he showed up with a starting gang that spent 150+ credits on photo-goggles, and, when mocked, indicated that his decision had something to do with his intended tactics card selections.

To me it seems like something easily counterplayed (in most scenarios). Tuck your gang out of LoS (or pin your own models behind cover) and wait as many turns as you need to for that 6 to get rolled.


Even though your group may be happy with it Topsy, I wouldn't say you "solved" the problem as much as you diluted it so much that it's barely noticeable. Broken cards are still broken and will still spoil your fun, they are just less likely to show up. That's rarity-based 'balance' and I never liked that.
I completely agree with turning the cards into a free MtG-sized resource though. Official cards are impractical (and lack errata), and pay-to-win is a sad sad way to conduct business.
lol, same feeling over here. Topsy's system has some upsides, but also quite a few problems. It in no way offers the type of universal solution that would be embraced by a majority of gaming groups.

- constant requirement of a master deck, as Kiro pointed out

- possibly of drawing "dead" cards (ie. a card that unlocks a door on a table with no doors; an Escher card that relates to Toxin when you're playing a Cawdor gang)

- massive increase in potential randomness/imbalance. Two players voluntarily using 'Click' every game is boring, but it's balanced. When one player draws 'Click' and the other draws some garbage that reduces one of the opponent's Champion's Cool by 1 it represents a huge un-earned advantage for one player
 

cronevald

Gang Champion
Jun 5, 2016
313
498
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Missoula, MT
- possibly of drawing "dead" cards (ie. a card that unlocks a door on a table with no doors; an Escher card that relates to Toxin when you're playing a Cawdor gang)
I use the same method as Topsy and quite like it, though I'll note that it probably works best for small friendly groups. Dead cards aren't an issue as we allow a discard and redraw until the player only has cards they can actually use. What I like most about this method is that it's just such a simple fix with no worries about deck management and banned cards lists.
 
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KA7777

Ganger
Jan 19, 2018
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Canada
Yup, because: how much do you let the player argue the case of a dead card?

Does a card that doubles charge range count as dead for a Van Saar gang without a single melee weapon on the roster? ;)
 

cronevald

Gang Champion
Jun 5, 2016
313
498
68
Missoula, MT
Yup, because: how much do you let the player argue the case of a dead card?

Does a card that doubles charge range count as dead for a Van Saar gang without a single melee weapon on the roster? ;)
I suppose this is true but the complaint really hasn't come up. Drawing 5-6 cards to choose 2-3 generally gives you enough of a spread that you'll end up with something useful. There are a few more specific examples, like "Just Add Nails, where I'd expect we'd allow a redraw if the gang didn't have any frag weapons. Perhaps we just see the cards as filling a different role than other groups do. With the described method they are potentially useful boons but only occasionally game defining and require very little management.