N18 Neoteks and falling

[megasaxon]

Hi all.

I was playing a ZM game the other day and my opponent's neotek was positioned above a big hole on the game map. I managed to seriously injure said neotek with a throwing knife (lol). Does this mean the neotek falls down the hole and dies, or clings on to his board, seriously injured?

I was feeling generous so allowed him to roll an initiative check, which he passed, and stayed hovering above the hole.

Thinking back, I think I was too generous here because if you're going to position your neoteks where they cannot be charged, there should be a counter-risk to you of them falling to their death.

What do people think?

 

[daveh]

our van saar club member insists he cant fall off the board

 

[locleos]

He can't end his movement overlapping obstacles or impassable terrain, per the grav cutter rules. The hole is definitely an obstacle, and what he did was illegal in the first place. That said, the general rule is that if you're entirely clear of the floor, you fall down without an initiative check.

If he was merely next to a hole(within an inch), he would have had to make an initiative check or fall into it and go out of action.

our van saar club member insists he cant fall off the board

he can't fall off per se, but if he goes prone somehow (hes immune to prone by shooting) then he has to use a double action to stand up.

 

[megasaxon]

He can't end his movement overlapping obstacles or impassable terrain, per the grav cutter rules. The hole is definitely an obstacle, and what he did was illegal in the first place. That said, the general rule is that if you're entirely clear of the floor, you fall down without an initiative check.

If he was merely next to a hole(within an inch), he would have had to make an initiative check or fall into it and go out of action.


he can't fall off per se, but if he goes prone somehow (hes immune to prone by shooting) then he has to use a double action to stand up.

Ah that's interesting. Do you have the exact rule to hand that you're referring to?

 

[locleos]

Ah that's interesting. Do you have the exact rule to hand that you're referring to?

The Grav Cutter describes its flight rules clearly in the text of the Neotek.

I was actually wrong about the falling down bit - the rules don't handle the general case, since you're just not allowed to do that by default.

There's two exceptions I know of:
-knockback rules say that if any part of the base overhangs as a result of the forced movement, you have to make an initiative check or fall down, implying you get the check whether or not your entire base makes it off the edge.
-The blaze rules can force you to run off an edge. If you partially overlap or get within 1 inch, you have to make an initiative check or fall, and if you are entirely over the edge you just fall. That was what I confused for a general rule.

But generally, the rules don't allow it, so it isn't described.

 

[megasaxon]

The Grav Cutter describes its flight rules clearly in the text of the Neotek.

I was actually wrong about the falling down bit - the rules don't handle the general case, since you're just not allowed to do that by default.

There's two exceptions I know of:
-knockback rules say that if any part of the base overhangs as a result of the forced movement, you have to make an initiative check or fall down, implying you get the check whether or not your entire base makes it off the edge.
-The blaze rules can force you to run off an edge. If you partially overlap or get within 1 inch, you have to make an initiative check or fall, and if you are entirely over the edge you just fall. That was what I confused for a general rule.

But generally, the rules don't allow it, so it isn't described.

I'm still not seeing how that means the neotek cannot position himself above a hole. I don't have the VS book, but on Killershrike it says:

When an Active fighter riding a Grav Cutter moves voluntarily by any means, they may fly between raised platforms, up or down to different levels, and over terrain and pitfalls without harm, so long as the fighter does not move through any terrain and ends their movement with their base not overlapping anything else and observing the 1'' rule.

Is it the bold section that means they cannot end their action over a hole?

 

[locleos]

Yes, that would be it.

 

[megasaxon]

OK thanks for your help! I look forward to breaking this news to him... not haha

 

[spafe]

The hole is definitely an obstacle

While I'm not defending the actions of the VS player, this is incorrect. An obstacle is 'any free standing terrain feature measuring no more than 2" high and 2" across'. they can also be moved over and are defined within sector mechanicus rules not zone mortalis.

That said... I would be seriously raising eyebrows at someone trying this and if it was how they were going to play then I'd be showing up with multimeltas and similar from then on without compunction. Technically they are correct, the grav cutter makes you immune to falling, there is no caveat that this ends when SI and prone (I guess the idea is the rider is lying injured on a hovering board, although as to why this makes standing up a double action is a bit odd). Personally because of the difficulty with standing up, I would play it as if you become prone due to SI then you are no longer immune to falling, but this is not in the rules, just how I would instinctively play it.

 

[megasaxon]

While I'm not defending the actions of the VS player, this is incorrect. An obstacle is 'any free standing terrain feature measuring no more than 2" high and 2" across'. they can also be moved over and are defined within sector mechanicus rules not zone mortalis.

That said... I would be seriously raising eyebrows at someone trying this and if it was how they were going to play then I'd be showing up with multimeltas and similar from then on without compunction. Technically they are correct, the grav cutter makes you immune to falling, there is no caveat that this ends when SI and prone (I guess the idea is the rider is lying injured on a hovering board, although as to why this makes standing up a double action is a bit odd). Personally because of the difficulty with standing up, I would play it as if you become prone due to SI then you are no longer immune to falling, but this is not in the rules, just how I would instinctively play it.

Yes, it is a bit gamey, but it's also quite situational too. It would be possible for me to completely ignore the section of the map with the hole in it, unless there was an objective there. The chances of me managing to charge a Neotek, even with Escher, is quite unlikely as they're so nippy (and unlikely to want to get into combat!) Hovering above a hole also means they have absolutely no cover from shooting attacks.

I think either he shouldn't be allowed to hover over the hole, or, if he is allowed to, has to face the prospect of instant death if seriously injured by shooting.

 

[locleos]

That's fair, my interpretation was probably overly enthusiastic.

 

[Scabs]

"Hover" is not a rule. A Grav cutter "may never fall," but it can't remain mid-air. If it goes off a ledge, it is gently placed on the next lower level. If it ends it's movement over a hole, see ya!