New edition 2020

[Ben_S]

I doubt people are likely to want 8 re-rolls, but it is nice that if you get an extra re-roll (from cheering fans or something) with just a couple of turns left you're more likely to be able to use it.

Having seen a picture on FB, it looks like GW really screwed up some of the rules here though. It says that in the second half you replenish your used re-rolls, but don't get to carry unused ones over from the first half. So, if you start the game with 4 re-rolls and use 3 during the first half then - RAW - it seems you start the second half with 3.

 

[almic85]

I doubt people are likely to want 8 re-rolls, but it is nice that if you get an extra re-roll (from cheering fans or something) with just a couple of turns left you're more likely to be able to use it.

Having seen a picture on FB, it looks like GW really screwed up some of the rules here though. It says that in the second half you replenish your used re-rolls, but don't get to carry unused ones over from the first half. So, if you start the game with 4 re-rolls and use 3 during the first half then - RAW - it seems you start the second half with 3.

I agree it’s poorly worded though the intent is quite clearly that you start each half with just the rerolls you have paid for, rather than the rerolls you have paid for plus any unused ones from the first half.

The reason why I think this is that directly after they say “... but unused team re-rolls do not carry over from the first half to the second half...” the follow it with the brackets “...(or from one fixture to the next in league play)”.

What’s silly is that they could have just replaced the word “game” with “half” in that entire paragraph and it would have read correctly without the need for the confusing last sentence.

 

[Ben_S]

Yes, exactly - it would have been so easy for them to say what they (presumably) meant and yet they fail to do so. That's one reason why so many people doubt whether other changes, such as the new ability to use multiple re-rolls in a single turn, are intentional changes.

 

[almic85]

One hundred percent agree. It’s one of those things that happens when they take a ruleset that has been interpreted the same way for 20 odd years and decide to reword it just because.

All it actually does is disguise any intended change behind a barrage of experienced coaches reading previous experience into the current rules.

To be honest it’s why I liked that the entire structure of the Necromunda game changed so much. It invalidated most of the arguments about how it was always done that way and just made them arguments over how it was actually worded.

Anyway it’s basically more stuff to send through to the FAQ email because unless the rules writers keep getting barraged with stupid questions they won’t understand that they aren’t being clear with their rules.

 

[Ben_S]

I've more or less given up hope on that. They seem to think that the rules are perfect, it's just their players who can't read.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Had a game night last night, it worked fine. We didn't read the rules too close and so didn't notice these kinds of details. We just assumed the most fundamental aspects were unchanged (like replenishing re-rolls).

Very skeptical about the new SPP (XP) system though. Looks like they imported the Necromunda system to Blood Bowl!

Sure, it can help against boring situations where you tend to take Block on (almost) everyone. But interested to see if the drawbacks are worth it. For example, need 18 SPP for a single stat advancement?

 

[almic85]

The new advancement system is the thing that I want to see work in person as it’s a significant change. And yes it reeks of Necromunda.

My biggest issue is that it is exploitable and needs a level of intrinsic trust with your opponent that they didn’t fix the random rolls. It’s something that in Necromunda I can love with but in the ultra competitive land of bloodbowl I can see big issues with.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Blood Bowl always had random rolls though. I never have an issue with trust among my friends luckily.

 

[almic85]

Less among friends and more among some of the ultra competitive leagues and tournaments that I have been a part of.

You know there was always that guy that happened to roll nothing but ballistic skill upgrades and select any skill on all his fighters.

I’m actually running a bloodbowl tournament in a February next year using the new rules and have had to change up the advancements to simplify them for ease of actually checking compliant rosters.

Basically the tier ratings get a set number of SPP’s (36/48/60) and can spend 6SPP on a selected primary and 12SPP on a selected secondary.

Anything harder than that for a competition tournament and my head will explode as a TO.

edit: I should also say that while bloodbowl always had random rolls they havenever costed the same skill on the same player differently depending on how they got it. This is more my issue as you now have to record if each skill was random or selected as it changes therelative cost of each player on the roster.

It’s basically more mandatory book keeping For everyone.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Ahh yes, it was good when you could always backtrack costs and evolution of a team. The same advancement having different costs makes it more complicated and impossible to control yeah.

 

[Ben_S]

I don't have the 2020 rules, but I assume the advancement system is designed for leagues. If you're running a one-off tournament, then I'd just ignore it. That's what tournaments have generally done in the past.

 

[TopsyKretts]

That's the resurrection format.

 

[almic85]

I don't have the 2020 rules, but I assume the advancement system is designed for leagues. If you're running a one-off tournament, then I'd just ignore it. That's what tournaments have generally done in the past.

A lot of tournaments used to give out a limited number of normal and double rolls from the old advancement system depending on tier rating of the teams.

Some did completely different things like just give TV limits for tiers or all sorts of other ways of balancing teams.

The thing for TOs to be careful of though is that the new skills don’t cost the same as the old skills so the cost of inducements and even the use of secondary skill trees means that teams built under old tournament rules won’t be the same final TV as teams build under the same rules in the new system.

 

[Ben_S]

But that's kind of my point. Tournaments usually (at least in the past) just said 'you get X skills'. Sometimes, as you say, they would vary these according to team tier. As far as I'm aware, few if any actually used the normal inducement rules, so TV didn't matter.

 

[Scabs]

Kinda fun to look back on this, five years later. Hindsight is my best sight. BB2020 is GW's best current rules set (remember the Kill Team terrain rules a couple of editions ago!?). I love Necomunda so much I just bought Halls of Ancients. My 20+ Necro rulebooks and expansion books fill a bookshelf. I could only bring them all to a game in a wheelbarrow. And, 8 years after that 17 year Necro support gap, we are still on the first new edition. Sorry, tweaks do not a new edition make. It's ALL good!

Foresight (my worst sight) says after four years, we may be awaiting a new BB edition. I hope not. Messing with perfection (OK, good enough) is fraught. In fact, some of the BB errata/FAQ are not awesome (looking at you, new inducements). GW, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[Ben_S]

BB2020 is GW's best current rules set

I still haven't played the 2020 rules, so I'm not really in a position to say whether they're better or worse than the old (CRP/2016) rules. But I will note that your claim is compatible with the latter option. (That is, BB2020 could be worse than BB2016, but still better than any current GW rules.)

 

[TopsyKretts]

BB2020 is surprisingly good yeah.

 

[Scabs]

I still haven't played the 2020 rules, so I'm not really in a position to say whether they're better or worse than the old (CRP/2016) rules. But I will note that your claim is compatible with the latter option. (That is, BB2020 could be worse than BB2016, but still better than any current GW rules.)

Umm, "CRP"...it's right there in the name.

My 25-year gap includes BB2016. NOT knocking it! But, BB2020 is definitely not worse, and BB2020 IS my Jam!

 

[Tiny]

I had a full on grognard tantrum when they "ruined" Blood Bowl with a new edition. I'm guessing I should probably give it a try.

 

[spafe]

it is good fun. and with bb3 now being pretty good, its easy to get games in as well