N18 New Rules Incoming

[JawRippa]

Took me a while to notice Underdog tactics chapter. Ugh, the editing is killing me.
Its great that finally there is no need to buy cash grab cards, I'm pleasantly suprised at GW showing some restraint.

I wonder what is that 6 page "Round summary" at the end

 

[TopsyKretts]

Probably just quick sheet reference material.

 

[daveh]

i watch youtube vids showing people playing games sometimes , every time people roll the dice in between the models hitting them , even knocking them over i cringe

 

[Jayward]

i watch youtube vids showing people playing games sometimes , every time people roll the dice in between the models hitting them , even knocking them over i cringe

I was one of these people. If I tried to roll quickly my dice could go anywhere, and at a Blood Bowl tournament where I was under time pressure I got so bad that I was hitting peoples' models on different tables. I have since invested in a dice cup, but one of my regular opponents will still mime diving for cover every now and again when I pick up my dice...

 

[JawRippa]

I was one of these people. If I tried to roll quickly my dice could go anywhere, and at a Blood Bowl tournament where I was under time pressure I got so bad that I was hitting peoples' models on different tables. I have since invested in a dice cup, but one of my regular opponents will still mime diving for cover every now and again when I pick up my dice...

I kept doing something similar and my opponent once joked that I must be jealous of his mad painting skills if I'm trying to chip the paint on his models so badly with my dice throws.
I should invest into a dice cup

 

[Punktaku]

Dice tower or dice trays work too. apparently one of the hosts of 40k bad cast tosses his in the air and lets them fall onto the table/models. They’ve joked about it during the show.

 

[Sundown Dreamer]

Cards sleeves back on the menu? Warning to anyone planning to get these (based on experience), get a lot of them otherwise you might have to wait 3-4 years until they are available again.

No guarantee and no Necromunda logo, but these should also fit:

Sleeve Kings "Blood Bowl Compatible" Sleeves (78x113mm) -110 Pack -SKS-8819

 

[MusingWarboss]

No guarantee and no Necromunda logo, but these should also fit:

Sleeve Kings "Blood Bowl Compatible" Sleeves (78x113mm) -110 Pack -SKS-8819

They’re good sleeves, I’ve been using them for a long time now. They are slightly bigger than the cards but not by much.

Perfect for writing on too.

The official ones are a perfect fit (I brought one pack when they first came out) but unless you get several packs to see you through you’re going to have some very recognisable cards in a deck!!

 

[PalatineKatinka]

The change is about using "model" instead of "fighter" so it can be used on vehicles. I would say they don't want it to be used on heavy weapons because they have kept the shoot (basic) part.

Haha! It still doesn't work on vehicles though! Vehicles (currently) don't perform Shoot (Basic) actions, they use either the Move & Shoot (Basic) or Fire All (Basic) actions to make ranged attacks.

 

[Amarok]

Haha! It still doesn't work on vehicles though! Vehicles (currently) don't perform Shoot (Basic) actions, they use either the Move & Shoot (Basic) or Fire All (Basic) actions to make ranged attacks.

If you want them to write all of those action in the tactic card... Id say "move and shoot" includes both actions and it's affected to anything related to them. Being such restrictive as you way, only leave us the crew shooting their pistols then XD

 

[PalatineKatinka]

They could just drop the Shoot (Basic) reference and say 'ranged attack' or left it as the original 'attack with a ranged weapon'. After all, the current text for a Shoot (Basic) action on p61 of the Ash Wastes book is "The fighter makes an attack with a ranged weapon." so having the card refer to 'an attack with a ranged weapon' would cover Shoot (Basic) actions and more, without any confusion over whether or not it applies to Shoot (Double), Shoot (Simple), Fire Through Ductway (Basic), Blind Fire (Double), Move & Shoot (Basic), Move & Shoot (Simple), Fire All (Basic), Fire All (Simple) & Run and Gun (Double).

 

[SirWalterManny]

I mean, the simplest interpretation is: It‘s a Tactcis card that specifically applies to when a model makes a Shoot (Basic) action.

It doesn’t ever apply to any Shoot (Double), Shoot (Simple), Fire Through Ductway (Basic), Blind Fire (Double), Move & Shoot (Basic), Move & Shoot (Simple), Fire All (Basic), Fire All (Simple) or Run and Gun (Double) actions.

I don’t think I’ve ever played a game where there hasn’t been at least one Shoot (Basic) action made. I don’t think I’e ever played a game where anyone has argued over what this card does or does not apply to.

[EDIT] That said, if I was playing someone and they used it for any action which involved making a ranged attack with any weapon which wasn’t a Heavy weapon, I think I’d be fine with that. And if it was used on a heavy weapon which used A suspensor, I’d also be fine with that because it would match the wording on the card.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Other spesial rules also make the same mistanke like Terrifying (don't remember if later wordings changed this). I think there are similar cases for Fight Basic too. My gut feeling is Shoot Basic is the same as ranged weapon attack. A heavy bolter clicks just as well as a bolter.

 

[Amarok]

They could just drop the Shoot (Basic) reference and say 'ranged attack' or left it as the original 'attack with a ranged weapon'. After all, the current text for a Shoot (Basic) action on p61 of the Ash Wastes book is "The fighter makes an attack with a ranged weapon." so having the card refer to 'an attack with a ranged weapon' would cover Shoot (Basic) actions and more, without any confusion over whether or not it applies to Shoot (Double), Shoot (Simple), Fire Through Ductway (Basic), Blind Fire (Double), Move & Shoot (Basic), Move & Shoot (Simple), Fire All (Basic), Fire All (Simple) & Run and Gun (Double).

But if they want to exclude the shooting double actions, they can't write ranged attack. You are presuming the card is supposed to be used to any ranged attack, but maybe it's not like that considering the current state of heavy weapons in N17, and that they altered the word "fighter" for "model" but left the basic action there (which as you say, they could have changed as well).

By the way, move and shoot and fire all can be simple actions? You listed them both as simple and basic.

 

[Amarok]

Other spesial rules also make the same mistanke like Terrifying (don't remember if later wordings changed this). I think there are similar cases for Fight Basic too. My gut feeling is Shoot Basic is the same as ranged weapon attack. A heavy bolter clicks just as well as a bolter.

It could be that, but it could be they don't want heavy weapons to be worse than they are now without reworking weapons costs.

Most of the heavy weapons are very expensive and/or not very cost effective, even if we add the suspensor cost, and many have a high reload value as well. In the early N17 games every game I played included "click" and "lucky find" in case there were heavy weapons involved. But at least you could hurt enemy gangers with other weapons.

In Ash Wastes games, neutralizing a missile launcher or a heavy melta is even more dramatic, and can change the game drastically, a lot of credits that suddenly are dead weight, and heavy vehicles are almost impossible to be damaged by most of the lesser weapons. That's why I think they want to exclude those weapons to be clicked on purpose. But then again, it's just my own opinion.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Yeah could go either way for sure. Also, this topic affects much more than Click and heavy weapons. For example Shoot (Simple).

 

[PalatineKatinka]

[EDIT] That said, if I was playing someone and they used it for any action which involved making a ranged attack with any weapon which wasn’t a Heavy weapon, I think I’d be fine with that. And if it was used on a heavy weapon which used A suspensor, I’d also be fine with that because it would match the wording on the card.

What if you went to play the card and then your opponent said "It won't work on my fighter, he's got the Fast Shot skill"? Would you just think it perfectly sensible that a skill that makes Shoot a Simple action also makes one immune to that tactics card?

But if they want to exclude the shooting double actions, they can't write ranged attack. You are presuming the card is supposed to be used to any ranged attack, but maybe it's not like that considering the current state of heavy weapons in N17, and that they altered the word "fighter" for "model" but left the basic action there (which as you say, they could have changed as well).

By the way, move and shoot and fire all can be simple actions? You listed them both as simple and basic.

I presume they have tried to standardise language and made a mess. By changing the card to refer to 'Shoot (Basic)' instead of 'an attack with a ranged weapon' they created the problem of the second part of the card referring to 'the weapon' when a weapon had not yet been mentioned. The third version now refers to 'the weapon that was used to make the Shoot (Basic) action' to fix a problem they created by switching to standardised form of reference to actions.

Yes, they can both be made Simple by giving Vehicle Crew certain Shooting Skills.

 

[SirWalterManny]

What if you went to play the card and then your opponent said "It won't work on my fighter, he's got the Fast Shot skill"? Would you just think it perfectly sensible that a skill that makes Shoot a Simple action also makes one immune to that tactics card?

Yeah, sure. Why not? It’s just a Tactics Card.

 

[Zugg Zugg]

It would be easy enough to say any action with the word shoot in it basic, simple or double.

 

[Jam Warrior]

Aaaand sold out by 10:10. The rulebook is at least theoretically only temporarily out of stock but looks like the cards are gone forever.