N18 New Rules Incoming
- Thread starter MusingWarboss
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They add the leader's equipment to their list but the fighters are still limited by the station as to what parts they can access. The hunters clearly state they can only select basic, pistol, melee and wargear from the list. The champs and specialists get full access though. Second bullet point under hunter equipment lays out the restriction.
Also note that under legacies you have to buy the stuff at hire you can't get access to the legacy leader list later. Not too bad really.
Yeah. Pull-outs from the new Venators rules:
House Legacy costs are now "baked in" to each fighter, but remain optional.
Notably also, things like Goliath genesmithing and Escher chem-alchemy don't appear on any of those equipment lists. Also notably, the Cawdor Legacy is specifically only the Word Keeper, not the Priest, so you could get Sheen Birds, but not Cherubs.
And notab;y, you can only purchase new equipment through a Trade action by visiting the Trading Post, because you do not have or keep a House equipment list for each fighter.
House Legacy costs are now "baked in" to each fighter, but remain optional.
So the Legacy equipment lists count specifically, only when hired, and stop affecting equipment access after hiring the fighter. It does still allow for assorted Wargear-exchange shenanigans, I suppose, in that you hire someone with House X Only wargear (not weapons, just wargear), buy them something new after a game or so, and put the old, House-Specific wargear in your stash, then after another game give the shashed wargear to another fighter from a different Legacy. But that all seems pretty edge-case, and I cannot think of any broken combinations that would result.
Notably also, things like Goliath genesmithing and Escher chem-alchemy don't appear on any of those equipment lists. Also notably, the Cawdor Legacy is specifically only the Word Keeper, not the Priest, so you could get Sheen Birds, but not Cherubs.
And notab;y, you can only purchase new equipment through a Trade action by visiting the Trading Post, because you do not have or keep a House equipment list for each fighter.
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[Thoughts on a possible Venators gang, thinking Pirates theme.
Skill sets Agility, Shooting, Cunning, and Savant, in some combination?
Ratling leader gets 6" move (the rest of the Ratlings are 4" move), and access to sniper weaponry. Long rifle, cameleoline cloak, las-projector would make them a solid sniper. Fast Shot to maximize their hang-back utility?
Ogryn Champion (Gorlok Blackpowder) with a combat shotgun (for its template), some Big Sword weapon, and Spring Up? (Spring Up on an Ogryn!!! One that starts with Initiative 4+, and can get more with little experience, and rating cost, since Initiative is cheap!)
Squat Champion with some sort of heavy weapon, like a mining laser or similar, and suspensors? Or more Ratling Long Rifles?
And then a mixed rabble of House Legacy gangers with a variety of House gear (Blunderpoles, for example? Stillettos and Shock Whips? Fleschette Pistols?) to stick with the Ogryn and advance toward scenario objectives? Maybe an Ogryn ganger or two? Blast (X) Grenades even in this list remain rather the de rigueur for ogryns, given their ballistic skill and how Strength affects their range.
And though not good on Ratlings with their S2 for range (and S being expensive to increase through experience), Throwing Knives are not a bad Basic weapon for most fighters with an average Ballistic Skill, giving the same range as most pistols, but with Toxin on the cheap, and WYSIWYG suiting pretty near every Fantasy model out there.]
Skill sets Agility, Shooting, Cunning, and Savant, in some combination?
Ratling leader gets 6" move (the rest of the Ratlings are 4" move), and access to sniper weaponry. Long rifle, cameleoline cloak, las-projector would make them a solid sniper. Fast Shot to maximize their hang-back utility?
Ogryn Champion (Gorlok Blackpowder) with a combat shotgun (for its template), some Big Sword weapon, and Spring Up? (Spring Up on an Ogryn!!! One that starts with Initiative 4+, and can get more with little experience, and rating cost, since Initiative is cheap!)
Squat Champion with some sort of heavy weapon, like a mining laser or similar, and suspensors? Or more Ratling Long Rifles?
And then a mixed rabble of House Legacy gangers with a variety of House gear (Blunderpoles, for example? Stillettos and Shock Whips? Fleschette Pistols?) to stick with the Ogryn and advance toward scenario objectives? Maybe an Ogryn ganger or two? Blast (X) Grenades even in this list remain rather the de rigueur for ogryns, given their ballistic skill and how Strength affects their range.
And though not good on Ratlings with their S2 for range (and S being expensive to increase through experience), Throwing Knives are not a bad Basic weapon for most fighters with an average Ballistic Skill, giving the same range as most pistols, but with Toxin on the cheap, and WYSIWYG suiting pretty near every Fantasy model out there.]
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The Goliath ganger stat line should cost at least 55 credits (with no special abilities, which beastmen have...).
That said I think all of their ranks are super under costed:
Leader 95 credits for WS3 BS3 S4 T4 W3 A3!
Champ 50 credits for WS3 BS3 S4 T4 W2 A2!
Ganger 20 credits for WS3 BS4 S4 T4!
sure they have move 4 (but don't goliath also have M4?).
Seriously GW hire an editor (that plays the game)...
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Or maybe make a stat builder system with costs associated with trait increases and standardize and use that 
Do they know it’s wrong? Do they think it’s wrong? Do they care either way??
It’s often so hard to tell.
You could always whack an email to them at NecromundaFAQ@gwplc.com
If they get enough enquiries maybe they’ll grace us with a 2025 FAQ update??
It’s often so hard to tell.
You could always whack an email to them at NecromundaFAQ@gwplc.com
If they get enough enquiries maybe they’ll grace us with a 2025 FAQ update??
Goliath gangers can be gene smithed, other gangs have spiffy different things. Venetors being cheap bodies leaves credits for fancy gear. GW looks (if they bother) at the overall for a gang and can it be cool not is it balanced against the rest.
Having a beast man with plasma pistol and power something is cool.
Also the costing of the cool (mental start now) overall could be a factor, Goliath gangs can lean on really good cool to keep them in the game after bottling. Double checking the venator cool it isn't as good.
Having a beast man with plasma pistol and power something is cool.
Also the costing of the cool (mental start now) overall could be a factor, Goliath gangs can lean on really good cool to keep them in the game after bottling. Double checking the venator cool it isn't as good.
55 credits gets you this for a goliath ganger:
20 credits gets you this for a beastman ganger:
I think this is clearly a copy and paste error from the ratling above it (also 20 credits):
There is no (sane) reason for the beastman statline to be 20 credits (and no the lol mental stats don't really justify it).
For a 35 credit reduction from the goliath ganger the beastman gets:
+1 WS
-1 Ld
-1 Cl
+1 Wil
Feral Warriors: Beastmen fighters increase their Attacks Characteristic by 1 if they have suffered one or more Flesh Wounds.
Frenzon Conditioning: A history of being considered disposable shock troops, often dosed with Frenzon, has resulted in Beastmen becoming immune to the chem’s negative effects. Beastmen fighters never suffer any Side Effects from using Frenzon (see the Necromunda Core Rulebook).
| M | WS | BS | S | T | W | I | A | Ld | Cl | Wil | Int |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 4" | 4+ | 4+ | 4 | 4 | 1 | 4+ | 1 | 8+ | 5+ | 9+ | 8+ |
20 credits gets you this for a beastman ganger:
| M | WS | BS | S | T | W | I | A | Ld | Cl | Wil | Int |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 4" | 3+ | 4+ | 4 | 4 | 1 | 4+ | 1 | 9+ | 6+ | 8+ | 8+ |
I think this is clearly a copy and paste error from the ratling above it (also 20 credits):
| M | WS | BS | S | T | W | I | A | Ld | Cl | Wil | Int |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 4" | 5+ | 4+ | 2 | 2 | 1 | 3+ | 1 | 7+ | 7+ | 8+ | 5+ |
There is no (sane) reason for the beastman statline to be 20 credits (and no the lol mental stats don't really justify it).
For a 35 credit reduction from the goliath ganger the beastman gets:
+1 WS
-1 Ld
-1 Cl
+1 Wil
Feral Warriors: Beastmen fighters increase their Attacks Characteristic by 1 if they have suffered one or more Flesh Wounds.
Frenzon Conditioning: A history of being considered disposable shock troops, often dosed with Frenzon, has resulted in Beastmen becoming immune to the chem’s negative effects. Beastmen fighters never suffer any Side Effects from using Frenzon (see the Necromunda Core Rulebook).
Yep, Beastman's an obvious error. The not obvious answer that needs the question is: what should the price be?
If it were only that the Ratling and Beastman prices were mixed up, easy peasy.
But for the situation we're in? Who knows. 50-55 feels about right, without thinking much about it, but I'm no intestinal genius, so who bleedin' knows?
If it were only that the Ratling and Beastman prices were mixed up, easy peasy.
But for the situation we're in? Who knows. 50-55 feels about right, without thinking much about it, but I'm no intestinal genius, so who bleedin' knows?
GW definitely doesn't know either. I'm saying melee weapons are over costed and a no skill ganger ruled for combat could in GWs world easily cost that. Cool 5 is a big upgrade to a model after bottling which mv4 makes more important, <shrugs>.
I play Goliath and while I think the beast man is criminally cheap I'm also able to believe GW meant to do that price...
The frenzon ability is kinda meh, and should cost 0, because you probably wouldn't equip all fighters with it anyway (let's skip discussing a frenzon collar which is basically frenzon but better). The Frenzy is pretty good though, probably worth at least 5-10 credits.
I think a 55 credits for a beastman is kinda fair.
I think a 55 credits for a beastman is kinda fair.
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I'm quite impressed they've managed to release a ruleset that makes the Hall of Ancients fluff about Ogryns and Squat combined gangs playable so close to street date!
Was it meant to be in the book?
Likely the editors felt it was appropriate to update Venators in a free supplement, rather than inflict "buy/pirate this book for the 8 pages you want" choice upon the punters or update the Book of Peril wholesale.
Hope springs eternal for a reviewed Chaos Helots and Original Flavour Genestealer cults lists.
Probably best done as Apocrypha - to give Arbitrators more choice - given the latter ruleset could use something about what happens when a non-Malstrain genestealer gang gets too close to a Malstrain Gang (The fluff says there's a 50% chance of defection...would that be an insanity check I see in the corner, warping my faith in the Eight-Armed Emperor?)
But surely we should discuss Frenzon collar in reference to the 50 credit Hunt Champion Beastmen, because as a 30 credits Rare 9 item it's possible to start out with 80 credit champions with Nerves of Steel, True Grit, Unstoppable and Berserk (and Reckless trait applied to all of the weapons) that have access to Rare 10 weapons from the start...
RAW the frenzon collars don't require refuelling between battles (which is silly - fluffwise they should require refuelling given Escher, the literal house of chems, has to buy theirs after use! - maybe a Frenzon Chip should be a thing at rarity similar to the Lobo Chip) but even a commonsense house rule requiring the collars to refuel via Frenzon purchase (which itself can be ameliorated by the Chem Dealer hanger-on) is lessened by the Frenzon side effects immunity so they won't have the downside.
Beastmen Champions charging (and Nerves of Steel makes that a 6+ likelihood!) with four attacks with a relative cheapie option like a 35 cred Servo Claw at Damage 2 or a 40 cred versatile Greatsword with Sever....that's quite competitive at body+collar 80 credits + whatever the close combat weapon costs.
The ability to group activate a Frenzon collar wearer from across the battlefield is a potentially overlooked side utility - though given it's initially going to be Champions affected it won't be as useful as the ability to remotely mass-activate a set of gangers with collars...Note that's the latter is a game 2 possibility with lucky Trading post rolls.
Was it meant to be in the book?
Likely the editors felt it was appropriate to update Venators in a free supplement, rather than inflict "buy/pirate this book for the 8 pages you want" choice upon the punters or update the Book of Peril wholesale.
Hope springs eternal for a reviewed Chaos Helots and Original Flavour Genestealer cults lists.
Probably best done as Apocrypha - to give Arbitrators more choice - given the latter ruleset could use something about what happens when a non-Malstrain genestealer gang gets too close to a Malstrain Gang (The fluff says there's a 50% chance of defection...would that be an insanity check I see in the corner, warping my faith in the Eight-Armed Emperor?)
But surely we should discuss Frenzon collar in reference to the 50 credit Hunt Champion Beastmen, because as a 30 credits Rare 9 item it's possible to start out with 80 credit champions with Nerves of Steel, True Grit, Unstoppable and Berserk (and Reckless trait applied to all of the weapons) that have access to Rare 10 weapons from the start...
RAW the frenzon collars don't require refuelling between battles (which is silly - fluffwise they should require refuelling given Escher, the literal house of chems, has to buy theirs after use! - maybe a Frenzon Chip should be a thing at rarity similar to the Lobo Chip) but even a commonsense house rule requiring the collars to refuel via Frenzon purchase (which itself can be ameliorated by the Chem Dealer hanger-on) is lessened by the Frenzon side effects immunity so they won't have the downside.
Beastmen Champions charging (and Nerves of Steel makes that a 6+ likelihood!) with four attacks with a relative cheapie option like a 35 cred Servo Claw at Damage 2 or a 40 cred versatile Greatsword with Sever....that's quite competitive at body+collar 80 credits + whatever the close combat weapon costs.
The ability to group activate a Frenzon collar wearer from across the battlefield is a potentially overlooked side utility - though given it's initially going to be Champions affected it won't be as useful as the ability to remotely mass-activate a set of gangers with collars...Note that's the latter is a game 2 possibility with lucky Trading post rolls.
I've seen +35 to the Beastmen costs up the line suggested in many places - that would make them:
- 55 credit gangers (comparable to Goliath Gangers and Squat legacy Hunters; with Rarity 8 trading post options),
- 85 credit Beastman Champions (which is cheaper than the 95 Squat ones but lacks the tasty Squat legacy list options; good Rarity 10 options including the synergistic Frenzon collar, Reflec Shrouds, Hazard Suits, Falsehood, etc.),
- 130 credit Beastman Leaders (equal cost to Squat legacy leaders - but their Rarity 11 options are pretty good).
I wouldn't go that far.
I don't mind it - it's a while since I did high school reading comprehension tests.
I get the impression the Apocrypha are a labour of love (for love of the game and setting) and skip usual editorial guidelines/approvals within an already-stretched development team - they're free. How else are we getting such wondrous floodgates being opened to cross-line options such as Ratlings and Beastmen in direct opposition to recent "game line segregation" policies/actions?
The fact the Errata document currently up on the website (dated 17/9/2024) had no changes to it from the prior 2022 version to reflect the Core Rules changes of 2023 makes me think they're running without enough staff to do the usual checks.
Although compared to the horrors of updating mainstream 40K rules its probably comparatively light duty!
There's also the "it's a narrative gaming system, not meant to balance" argument - which only makes me ruin/grind my teeth occasionally...since 2019...
But that's true regardless it being Beastmen, really, it's juts a matter of ANY of the Champions being 50 credits.
The Beastmen special rule doesn't even affect the collar. The down-side to Frenzon, the addiction and withdrawal, are already mitigated by the Frenzon Collar, so those don't interact with that Beastmen rule at all.
Heck, Unstoppable ends up working against the Beastmen Berserk rules, since it pulls Flesh Wounds off the fighter.
It's not so much a question of Beastmen, it's a question of Champion price overall. A 90 credit Champion makes the Frenzon Collar a 120 credit investment rather than 80. You technically could run that trick with the Ratling Champions as well. Sure, they are T2, and so won't stay up in a damp breeze, and sure they have S2 and so need a hundred credits worth of weaponry to hit better than a dry towel, but they could also buy a Frenzon collar. Bit of a waste of a Champion slot in both cases, mind.
Heck, this "2024" FAQ doesn't reference the 2023 Core Rule Book at all. Those page references are all to the 2018 edition Rule Book. Page 42 in the N23 Core Rule Book is the start of the timeline, and not rules at all. So not only does it say "2022" on the front page, it only covers up to 2020.
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2024 FAQ? I thought the latest for 2-3 years old.
Edit: Found it after a few minutes looking through warcom. It's the one that says "RULES AND ERRATA, APRIL 2022" on first page haha.
Edit: Found it after a few minutes looking through warcom. It's the one that says "RULES AND ERRATA, APRIL 2022" on first page haha.
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Goonhammer have now added a write-up of the new Venators list. Lots of similar conclusions. Unsurprisingly.
You’ve all got your wish!
They’ve updated it.
www.warhammer-community.com
That was unusually quick.
They’ve updated it.
Necromunda
Looking for the latest updates to your codex or battletome? Got a question about how something in your army works? Each of these FAQs contains all of the most up-to-date errata and answers you’ll need to make sure that your games run as smoothly as possible, incorporating feedback from the...
www.warhammer-community.com
That was unusually quick.
No more. Its fixed.
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So, the Beastman Ganger is actually 60.
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