N18 New Rules Incoming

[Wasteland]

I collected all content for BB into a single pdf for reference throughout 2 editions. Thought it would be neat to have all in one place, but after a while it's just the same concepts repeated. Quality and balance was also very uneven. Not to mention the random effect cards!

Our BB league in the 90s included one unfortunate Undead coach. During the same league his opponents managed to draw the "The Draft" random event card (title maybe off) TWICE and his vampire star player (180K cost) turned out to be the target both times. And the result was...permanent service on both occasions! So his team was screwed over twice in a monumental way. This was the golden age of gaming. LMAO!

Legend says those two vampires still man the oars with the help of Sun Block 5000.

 

[TopsyKretts]

It used to be a handful, now there are something like 48 universal and then 8 per team.

 

[lastbrat]

I don't think there is anything wrong with additional books/ publications containing extra lore and/or OPTIONAL rules. As long as all the core rules and characteristics are contained within one or two books.

I am actually happy and excited to see simplification as well. I hope they got rid of half of the weapon traits, including removing the Sidearm trait. They also clearly removed some of the conditions, judging by the small number of tokens shown in the picture - again, I think this is a good thing. As much as I like the game, having to work out a string of conditions (a ganger who is broken, on fire, concussed and insane at the same time) is just slowing the game down unnecessarily.

Weapons should have one (max 2) traits in my opinion. CC weapons should be used in CC. Armour should be effective against armour piercing weapons, not blunt weapons or be a universal roll (using armour against falling is plain silly). Jumping should be like crossing difficult terrain or climbing - just impose a unified movement penalty. In the end, 60% of the outcome of a Necromunda battle is decided by dice, not by the player's tactical and strategical prowess, unfortuanetely.
Which is nice, because it means inexperienced/ poor players still have a solid chance of winning, but then whether you roll 5 times or one time to determine the result of a shot - statistically, there is zero difference, and the game will just play faster.

I see many discussions on why a certain rule/dice roll should be there, because it is "realistic", but if all these rules just lead to more dice rolls, the game becomes more of a game of dice, rather than game of tactics - luck is rewarded more than clever or innovative (or fun) actions or thinking. In my opinion - if a rule has no effect on the outcome of the game, other than being part of a longer formula to determine the chances of success, it has no real added value to the game.

I realize many will disagree, of course. So yeah, I'm actually looking forward to the new edition. And, if anything is not to our liking, we/ arbitrators just house rule it, as always

 

[Beebopalulla]

Will you be so kind as to add space between sentences ? It's so pack i have trouble reading you .

 

[lastbrat]

Will you be so kind as to add space between sentences ? It's so pack i have trouble reading you .

Is this better? Sorry for the long sentences. I should simplify those too, to be consistent with my opinions

 

[Beebopalulla]

Is this better? Sorry for the long sentences. I should simplify those too, to be consistent with my opinions

Thank you

 

[TopsyKretts]

Nr1 thing to improve is:
HAVE FALL DAMAGE HEIGHT INCREMENTS BE SAME AS INITIATIVE TEST TO LAND SAFELY

(or vice versa)

 

[Spenetrator]

Honestly, having heard that they are adding range mods to the armour save, I just wish they'd implement a flat 0 mod at short, -1 to hit at medium range, & -2 at long. And swap the to hit short and long mods for an extra range band. On the profile - Easy to remember.S/M/L.

Having a range modifier added to a save roll feels... Counter intuitive. It means you can have a broader swathe of BS stats as less modifiers affect them - but what about cover? Does that convey a cover mod? Do weapons have distinct range mods still? But it also means more hits are likely, so more rolls are needed, unless all fighters get a BS nerf. My head hurts. Not knowing is the worst!

 

[JawRippa]

To be honest, I'm not too enthusiastic about moving accuracy modifiers to cover bonuses or penalties. The way I see it, this doesn't actually speed up the game, but rather offloads modifier fiddling into another step of the Shooting sequence. And with BS4+ remaining the norm, I'd rather have a normal ganger miss against a heavy cover on 6+, thus terminating the sequence early, rather than succeeding on a 4+, rolling to wound, only for opponent to make a successful cover save roll. This accomplishes the same thing, but the "new" variant results in longer games on average.

What I'd be happy about is shooter rolling the cover save FOR the opponent alongside a hit roll. In my opinion the #1 thing that slows the game down is the sequential order of rolls and the fact that it is interrupted by waiting for an opponent to make a save roll. Or perhaps somehow merge two steps into one (to wound roll and injury for example), but that would require a complete overhaul of the system probably.

I don't want to make early speculations and be pessimistic, but this cover save bit makes me scratch the head in confusion of what exactly was the goal here if it does not actually speed up the game?

 

[PalatineKatinka]

Armour should be effective against armour piercing weapons, not blunt weapons or be a universal roll (using armour against falling is plain silly).

Armour piercing weapons should be the things effective against armour, that's their purpose, to pierce the armour. Also, armour against falling is fine, otherwise cyclists and rock climbers wouldn't wear helmets.

 

[lastbrat]

Armour piercing weapons should be the things effective against armour, that's their purpose, to pierce the armour. Also, armour against falling is fine, otherwise cyclists and rock climbers wouldn't wear helmets.

About the armour piercing weapons - I ment to say theose should be effective against armour, instead of all weapons having an AP modifier. This to make the AP stand out as a weapon trait, rather than being a characteristic. About the helmets vs falling - fair point.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

Also, armour against falling is fine, otherwise cyclists and rock climbers wouldn't wear helmets.

Those cyclists and rock climber helmets aren't armour really. At best they are an ablative cover. And not do they protect against serious falls, a skidding graze is not a bolt gun round. They at best protect against a single light glancing blow like a rock or gravel shard. Not an enraged cleaver wielding Goliath. You are supposed to throw out and replace such helmets after a impact, the foam/polystyrene layer will not be usable after that and be able to protect the head adequately. (Diehard biker here).

Armour actually works by deflection of force. The force of the impact needs to go somewhere and doesn't just vanish. Solid plate armours attempt to move the impact force along another plane (maths plane) to the impact in theory away from the protected body while gel and foam type armour attempts to spread the impact force as wide as possible so the squishy innards receive the force on a wider area instead of a much smaller pinpoint hit.
Neither method is perfect. Some force will get through to the person underneath. Large bludgeoning damage such as a 5 story fall or a wreaking ball will overcome any personal armour. In the case of a head injury it can in fact make it worse with contracoup injuries.
Falling damage should definitely have Armour Piercing properties.

 

[PalatineKatinka]

I'm fine with falling damage scaling with the distance. Armour should help with a small distance but obviously there will be a point where it no longer is effective. Note that when I'm talking about armour against falling damage I am NOT talking about bolt gun rounds or cleaver wielding Goliaths and I AM talking about glancing blows from rocks and gravel shards. I'm not talking about wearing a motorbike helmet to stop a bolt shell, I'm talking about wearing mesh armour to stop the random rubble of the underhive from tearing your arm open.

 

[Spenetrator]

I don't want to make early speculations and be pessimistic, but this cover save bit makes me scratch the head in confusion of what exactly was the goal here if it does not actually speed up the game?

I feel the same. Change for the sake of it?
Anyway, looks like it'll be on pre-order next week. So hopefully this week may have some teasers/detail.

I'll keep an eye on the sump...

Sunday Preview – The new edition of Necromunda emerges from the Underhive

What’s coming up next week?

www.warhammer-community.com

 

[MusingWarboss]

What a densely packed starter set

However, jokes aside the bit that caught my attention was the new 28.5mm and 50mm Necromunda bases.
That implies to me that some of the existing ranges may get a base upgrade (Goliath Forgeborn and CGC Juves from 25-28.5mm perhaps) as well as larger models entering the system.

Useful for those of us who want to convert and scale up a base or two. Also useful for those who wanted to play Squats on non-ash wastes bases. Now you upgrade to proper sized Necromunda ones!

 

[TopsyKretts]

Has any existing kit ever upgraded base sizes before?

 

[MusingWarboss]

Has any existing kit ever upgraded base sizes before?

The Orks did. It’s not like the bases are moulded on the sprues.

Except the old Warhammer characters, theres were and they came with a new round base for AoS bundled afterwards.

---

I also noticed a quick name tweak in the Warhammer post.

Meanwhile, Gangs of the Outlands contains rules for Outcast Gangs, Free Ogryn Gangs…

Free Ogryn Gangs… not Slave Ogryn Gangs. Are the Slave Ogryns not a thing now? Did they all rebel and become free in some lore change?
Or is this one of those “We can’t call Boba Fett’s ship the Slave 1 anymore…” type situation??

 

[Ben_S]

Overview of rules changes:

Necromunda – Rules changes in the new edition

What can you expect from the biggest rules update in years?

www.warhammer-community.com

"The release of Necromunda: Skirmish brings together over nine years of updates and enhancements into a cleaner and more intuitive system that smoothes out the gameplay experience.... less flipping through books to find that one rule you always forget."

Sounds good, but this is sales-speak. The crucial question is whether the system will stay simple, or be ruined by hundreds more books and updates.

"You can also pick up as many Brutes and Hangers-on as you want (as long as they don’t outnumber the non-Brutes and Hangers-on in your gang), so go wild and..."

Buy the models that aren't selling well enough?

"bottle checks test against the highest Leadership on the field rather than making Cool checks for every individual ganger."

I wonder where that idea came from...

 

[Ben_S]

Has any existing kit ever upgraded changed base sizes before?

Loads of old fantasy kits. I'm sure some must have gone from 20mm square (WFB) to 25mm round (AoS) to 25mm square (TOW).

And various 40k kits went from 25mm to 32mm when the latter was introduced, starting with space marines but also orks and I think genestealers.

 

[Stoof]

Funny wording on the post battle actions. Everything is done by a Fighter (of varying types) until Train which is done by any Model.

The model is a playing piece. A representative token. It does nothing. The fighter or character it represents does the action.

Me just being picky probably. Can anything that isn't considered a "fighter" earn XP that makes them pick such an odd turn of phrase for that one action?