N18 New Squats on the block!

That depends on the two Melee weapons. If one is a maul and any other weapon yes. However the power sword, axe, maul, hammer, pick for example are all roughly equivalent in effectiveness just in different flavours.
You can still get an effective fighter with different weapons as long as each is broadly as effective as another. If it is heavily unbalanced say Thunder hammer and fighting knife then yes ineffective
Disagreed. For any situation there'll be a perk or profile you'd prefer to be using, and mixed melee weapons means half your attacks will be using the less preferable profile.

If the two different weapons have the same, or very similar profiles that achieve the same effect then you might as well have just doubled up on the same weapon..
 
Ah, I had entirely missed this and had thought this was the same as the Ogryn Arc Welder.

My main point stands in that doubling up on differently profiled melee weapons is bad, but in this case I'd advocate binning off the arc welder then, buy a pistol if you want an extra attack
I am learning so much right now.

So far I'm getting a coconscious of keeping the hammer, binning the arc welder and getting a pistol?
 
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Ok so I've taken on advice. changed up my Charter Master and added another prospector along with some other tweeks. what do you guys think?


I had 60 creds left so i gave both my Drill-kyn frag grenades. was debating between that or close combat weapons/side arms and now im thinking i might change that to pistols....thoughts?
 
Third: consider using the recently revised rulebook's allowance to get an Ammojack early doors. With Meltagun and Bolter, it's annoyingly easy to go OOA before hitting something. Not enough to say "don't use Meltagun & Bolter", but an Ammojack is worth considering.
Any Chance you can link me to this? im playing my "dumb new player who only knows some rules" card
 
We are going to but at the moment we are all still leaning the basics (hence my poor gang list). once we know what we are doing we are all gonna add vehicles. any recommendations?
Squats have not great initiative so mounts like bikes may not be ideal (if you get shot you must pass a initiative test or get Knocked down and suffer a hit which increases in strength damage and ap depending on how fast you were going. There is more but that's the general gist).

However the most common ganger advance is M or Initiative in the random rolls so your gangers can surprisingly quickly get decent initiative. Also it is a relatively cheap direct path xp advance for characters. You may not have the ability to take the heavy weapons on a bike but your Ironhead pistols Basics and Specials are all good so you can get some decent milage (hehe) out of them after a initiative advance or two.
Plus all biker squats will be able to have a foot slogging fighter card for Underhive battles.

Squats have a crew with Gang fighter for vehicles so they won't upset gang composition which is handy. In theory you could field a gang entirely of leader, champions and vehicles crew. All heavy hitters.

I have found light vehicles like the Wolfquad quick but fragile maybe not the best choice for a expensive heavy weapon.

Medium vehicles like the Ridge runner are tougher have decent speed and are a good choice to start with.
While they often have things like Transport Beds they are often small so you only fit on Squat on them. If you plan on having your Ironhead heavy stubber champion mounted on the back of a ridgerunner and you get a mining laser for it you end up not using one or the other.
Heavy vehicles like the rock grinder are pricey slower and just plain nasty. Tough enough to take a lot of small arms fire and can carry a lot of the gang. If you want a relatively cheap, for vehicles, people carrier these are a place to start.

Now your super heavy vehicles, the Cargo 8 Rig and the Explorer are just beasts. They steam roll every thing have tonnes of options and control much of the field. Normally I would only go heavy vehicle at most but for the Squats the idea of traveling the wastes in a robust mobile fortress is just so on point.

Currently converting a League of Voltan land fortress into a Explorer swapping out the wheels for half tracks and building a fighting platform on top.
Also some biker squats just for funsies. And ride bys with Ironhead pistols.
 
Ok so I've taken on advice. changed up my Charter Master and added another prospector along with some other tweeks. what do you guys think?


I had 60 creds left so i gave both my Drill-kyn frag grenades. was debating between that or close combat weapons/side arms and now im thinking i might change that to pistols....thoughts?
Looks better, extra bodies are good.

See how you get on with the frag grenades, I've never found them to be much use but part of the joy of Necromunda is everyone's experience is a little different due to the mix of players, gangs and terrain (mostly terrain) that can really mix up the meta.
 
Any Chance you can link me to this? im playing my "dumb new player who only knows some rules" card

I will replace the power Hammer by a power axe in order to buy a stub gun. As the meltagun is scarce. It’s also usable in close combat. So if your skill re roll fail, you will have a back up.
 
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Ok so I've taken on advice. changed up my Charter Master and added another prospector along with some other tweeks. what do you guys think?


I had 60 creds left so i gave both my Drill-kyn frag grenades. was debating between that or close combat weapons/side arms and now im thinking i might change that to pistols....thoughts?
Looks good so far.
I personally would hold off on grenades. First off you have access to Blasting charges which while shorter ranged and can be dangerous to you on a scatter are otherwise just plain nasty. Just 5 credits more.
Secondly Squat fighters as a general rule are on the pricy side so you really don't want to lose them first game if they get critically injured if you can't afford a Medical Escort action. I would keep the credits for that to start (unless you are just playing Skirmish games to start and that is not a issue. If that's the case, explosives).

Grenades on general have disappointing ranges for me when you are Strength three if you think of them as offensive weapons. With a max range of 9" or 6" for some that is awful close. If you want to be that close that is pretty close to charge range already. If you want to shoot and hurt them you would often be better with a real gun, which benefits from accuracy and Aiming. Plus there is not a chance of it scattering and hitting yourself.

Now if you look at them as defensive weapons (that are Wargear) then the non Gas, Smoke (but I will return to smoke later) are great. They provide relatively cheap blast templates to everyone. Pinned Corpse Grinders, Death Maidens, any close combat monster etc, can't Charge. Oh and they might hurt them too.

Smoke Grenades I class as tactical rather than defensive. Basically it provides a 5" template of line of sight blocking smoke which is great for stopping that Van Saar lascannon sniper from getting a bead on you. It also stops you from firing through it as well.
It's a good purchase, maybe for later. There is nothing stopping you from dropping them at you fighters feet if you really need the LOS cover to protect yourself from said lascannon. Ok it may still scatter but not too far so you can dive into the smoke.
 
Looks good so far.
I personally would hold off on grenades. First off you have access to Blasting charges which while shorter ranged and can be dangerous to you on a scatter are otherwise just plain nasty. Just 5 credits more.
Secondly Squat fighters as a general rule are on the pricy side so you really don't want to lose them first game if they get critically injured if you can't afford a Medical Escort action. I would keep the credits for that to start (unless you are just playing Skirmish games to start and that is not a issue. If that's the case, explosives).

Grenades on general have disappointing ranges for me when you are Strength three if you think of them as offensive weapons. With a max range of 9" or 6" for some that is awful close. If you want to be that close that is pretty close to charge range already. If you want to shoot and hurt them you would often be better with a real gun, which benefits from accuracy and Aiming. Plus there is not a chance of it scattering and hitting yourself.

Now if you look at them as defensive weapons (that are Wargear) then the non Gas, Smoke (but I will return to smoke later) are great. They provide relatively cheap blast templates to everyone. Pinned Corpse Grinders, Death Maidens, any close combat monster etc, can't Charge. Oh and they might hurt them too.

Smoke Grenades I class as tactical rather than defensive. Basically it provides a 5" template of line of sight blocking smoke which is great for stopping that Van Saar lascannon sniper from getting a bead on you. It also stops you from firing through it as well.
It's a good purchase, maybe for later. There is nothing stopping you from dropping them at you fighters feet if you really need the LOS cover to protect yourself from said lascannon. Ok it may still scatter but not too far so you can dive into the smoke.

Thank you so much that is amazing advice.

I gotta be honest it was 'Nades or a combat knife for each of them with the rest going in the bank just to give them a little extra in close combat but i thought the explosives would have more of a punch
 
Thank you so much that is amazing advice.

I gotta be honest it was 'Nades or a combat knife for each of them with the rest going in the bank just to give them a little extra in close combat but i thought the explosives would have more of a punch
You are welcome.
Knives are ok there are better weapons for melee on the list.
I would only go for one role for each fighter to start with, either ranged or Melee. Champions and leaders have the stats to go multi role but gangers and juves don't. It would be better to start off in one role and do it well than spread the fighter too thin.
Later on you can get a back up (campaigns etc) to fill in the other role but not to start. If you get a autogun/bolter you really need to be shooting. You get sights to help etc. Fir bosses you invest in skills down a specific role.
Many people get the cheap and cheerful fighting knife as a back up but I find that if my firebase (lasgun auto gun etc) fighters end up actually need to defend themselves in melee it is because that melee monster has weathered the fire and will smash you anyway. Or that infiltrating Naght ghul pops up and decapitates you. When credits allow later I would get something with more punch like the power weapons available so, should they survive they can make a decent hit.

As per Rules as Written you can't discard weapons once added (which I agree with). So I plan on how the weapon works on higher level threats as well as low.
Grenades however are Wargear can be swapped out if you find they are no longer effective.
 
Any Chance you can link me to this? im playing my "dumb new player who only knows some rules" card
I can't, but the gist is the new rulebook allows you to hire a hanger-on at gang creation, where you'd need to wait 'tilfter first game to do that before the new book.

Incidentally, for 65cred you could get the Claim Jumper. (Which is very good value, but they don't gain XP, so I'm always loathe to recommend them. Also, they're such a steal, it feels a little bit rotten.)

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On the power pack: I'm not convinced they're restricted to only one attack. But in any case, that's not so vital.

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On the spare weapons for folks, the Ironhead Stub gun really is daft good. The extra shots give it a wee bit extra va-va-voom, and after being stung once or twice, folk get a little wary of them.

More, as you can buy the +5cr dum-dum upgrade, you get a S4 rapid fire pistol to boot. I'd go as far as saying that you can treat that as a 15cr grenade. (Except when you'd *really* want the blast benefits, then it's not so handy!)

But you get the idea.

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Lastly: I'm a big fan of the power hammer & IH bolt pistol combo on the charter master. It's oddly brutal when it pays off, like you could be landing ~6 S4 D2 Ap-1 hits on opponents, with the chance of the power trait kicking in. You might consider "Brutal Charge", makes for a beastly goon. Not necessary, but it is good fun.
 
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The Power pack trait states it add an additional attack but you can have up to two power pack weapons so that's up to two.
Totally, I can sorta see that... but I read that as "additional", as in "it's not *just* a weapon", but that it is also still a weapon. Like the draw is that it's opening up some hands-free attacks.

Like for the Drill Master with a Mining Laser & power pack gem extractor. I'd taken that to be 2 base attacks & +1 from the gem extractor, and that you'd get to make all three with the gem extractor. Get a circular saw too, it'd be 2 saw, 2 extractor, and one either way if you're on the charge. Alternatively, what? 50cr to make one decent attack whilst you've a heavy weapon (plus two bare fists), when for 5cr less you could get a power hammer and do two attacks full tilt?

...

Not only "I don't buy it", but quite literally: I doubt I'd ever spend credits on the daft things in that case.

No, for my money (err, credit), I don't think it's ironclad that they only do *only* one attack per weapon affixed to the power pack, additional to your others.

I know it's a dangerous game to play with respect to Necromunda rules, but I feel like if they meant only one attack per weapon, on top of other attacks, they'd have worded it that way.

(I've not got the book to hand, but I'm fairly sure this conviction crystalised when comparing the Sidearm bit of Power Pack to the rest of the weapon trait.)
 
(I've not got the book to hand, but I'm fairly sure this conviction crystalised when comparing the Sidearm bit of Power Pack to the rest of the weapon trait.)

interesting. can you go further with an example?
 
(I've not got the book to hand, but I'm fairly sure this conviction crystalised when comparing the Sidearm bit of Power Pack to the rest of the weapon trait.)
Book of Outlands Page 142. Power Pack Trait.
"A Weapon with this trait is worn mounted on the power pack of an Ironhead Squat Prospector and does not count towards the maximun number of weapons a fighter can carry. However , a fighter cannot have more than two weapons with this trait.
If the weapon also has the Melee trait it can also be used in addition to any other weapon carrierd by the fighter granting an additional close combat attack"
First paragraph. = 1, only Ironead Squat Prospectors can have it and you put in on the backpacks we made. (Buy our models please)
2, It does not count towards your weapon slot limit (usually three)
3. 0-2

Second paragraph = 1"the weapon" It is discussing a single weapon.

2, Melee Trait. Only applies to ones with the Melee trait, so the Stone Burner for example does not. (But it does have the Side Arm rule so it can be used anyway. a Bit redundant given point 4 below...)

3 "in addition to any other weapon carrierd by the fighter" The word any is a plural so it allows your fighter to use a Axe and hammer duel wielding as normal (They could have just written "in addition to other weapons" instead and it would mean the same thing and save them printing 2 letters).

4, granting an additional close combat attack. The use of the word "an" denotes an Indefinite Article. It means that the following "additional close combat attack" is non spercific but the use of the words "the weapon" previously already denotes the item (the power pack weapon) as the Definite Article. which is singular.
As it says "can also be used in addition" it denotes that the power pack weapon is an add on to the normal weapon and not the Primary attack. This means you only apply it once.


5, The final word "attack" If they used the phrasing "granting additional close combat attacks" (with the s at the end of attack) then that would open the powerpack weapon to be used for multiple attacks. Since they used the singular word "attack" that means only One.

"Like for the Drill Master with a Mining Laser & power pack gem extractor. I'd taken that to be 2 base attacks & +1 from the gem extractor, and that you'd get to make all three with the gem extractor. Get a circular saw too, it'd be 2 saw, 2 extractor, and one either way if you're on the charge. Alternatively, what? 50cr to make one decent attack whilst you've a heavy weapon (plus two bare fists), when for 5cr less you could get a power hammer and do two attacks full tilt"

The Power PAck trait details it's use in conjunction with a "Weapon" Unarmed Strikes are not considered weapons so technically the Drill master you mentioned has no Weapon that can be used in Close Combat so because the Power pack trait says "in addition to any other weapon" you can't use them in melee ( There is nothing to add them to).
 
Book of Outlands Page 142. Power Pack Trait.
"A Weapon with this trait is worn mounted on the power pack of an Ironhead Squat Prospector and does not count towards the maximun number of weapons a fighter can carry. However , a fighter cannot have more than two weapons with this trait.
If the weapon also has the Melee trait it can also be used in addition to any other weapon carrierd by the fighter granting an additional close combat attack"
First paragraph. = 1, only Ironead Squat Prospectors can have it and you put in on the backpacks we made. (Buy our models please)
2, It does not count towards your weapon slot limit (usually three)
3. 0-2

Second paragraph = 1"the weapon" It is discussing a single weapon.

2, Melee Trait. Only applies to ones with the Melee trait, so the Stone Burner for example does not. (But it does have the Side Arm rule so it can be used anyway. a Bit redundant given point 4 below...)

3 "in addition to any other weapon carrierd by the fighter" The word any is a plural so it allows your fighter to use a Axe and hammer duel wielding as normal (They could have just written "in addition to other weapons" instead and it would mean the same thing and save them printing 2 letters).

4, granting an additional close combat attack. The use of the word "an" denotes an Indefinite Article. It means that the following "additional close combat attack" is non spercific but the use of the words "the weapon" previously already denotes the item (the power pack weapon) as the Definite Article. which is singular.
As it says "can also be used in addition" it denotes that the power pack weapon is an add on to the normal weapon and not the Primary attack. This means you only apply it once.


5, The final word "attack" If they used the phrasing "granting additional close combat attacks" (with the s at the end of attack) then that would open the powerpack weapon to be used for multiple attacks. Since they used the singular word "attack" that means only One.

"Like for the Drill Master with a Mining Laser & power pack gem extractor. I'd taken that to be 2 base attacks & +1 from the gem extractor, and that you'd get to make all three with the gem extractor. Get a circular saw too, it'd be 2 saw, 2 extractor, and one either way if you're on the charge. Alternatively, what? 50cr to make one decent attack whilst you've a heavy weapon (plus two bare fists), when for 5cr less you could get a power hammer and do two attacks full tilt"

The Power PAck trait details it's use in conjunction with a "Weapon" Unarmed Strikes are not considered weapons so technically the Drill master you mentioned has no Weapon that can be used in Close Combat so because the Power pack trait says "in addition to any other weapon" you can't use them in melee ( There is nothing to add them to).


The sad part will all that is doesn't even invite you to get a beer... Power pack and no micro brewery? What a waste !
 
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