N18 Newbie Cawdor

[Freekill58]

Hey all

Looking for some ideas for my first gang list for my first campaign at the FLGS

Word Brethren

Any ideas feedback etc would help loads!

Many thanks

 

[El Torro]

I think the biggest issue with this list is that you only have 1 Firebrand. I would definitely take a second, even if you just give him a long rifle. You should quite easily afford it if you reduce the number of secondary weapons people are taking and also reduce the number of Juves. I can see why you would want 3 Juves, but why 6?

 

[Sump Thing]

I can see why you would want 3 Juves, but why 6?

I think it's to bring the total number of gangers to 14. This way you have chances to field them all in scenarios where the starting crew is 10.

About the list, just some small things. Leaders and champions can only select from their primaries for the starting skill, so your word-keeper can't have Blazing Faith, as Piety secondary to him. Maybe something from the Leadership skills, to support all the juves. Also, Bulging Biceps only allows to use unwieldy close combat weapons in one hand, it has no effect on ranged weapons. So, the firebrand needs a skill change as well.

Finally a tip using the yaktribe's underhive tools. When you are creting a gang , click "buy" instead of "add" when giving a ganger equipment. This way the tool will automatically reduce the cost from your stash, as now you have 420 extra credits, which is the exact same amount as all your weapons and armours cost.

 

[Freekill58]

I think it's to bring the total number of gangers to 14. This way you have chances to field them all in scenarios where the starting crew is 10.

About the list, just some small things. Leaders and champions can only select from their primaries for the starting skill, so your word-keeper can't have Blazing Faith, as Piety secondary to him. Maybe something from the Leadership skills, to support all the juves. Also, Bulging Biceps only allows to use unwieldy close combat weapons in one hand, it has no effect on ranged weapons. So, the firebrand needs a skill change as well.

Finally a tip using the yaktribe's underhive tools. When you are creting a gang , click "buy" instead of "add" when giving a ganger equipment. This way the tool will automatically reduce the cost from your stash, as now you have 420 extra credits, which is the exact same amount as all your weapons and armours cost.

where does it say that it is only for CCW looking in the rulebook it just says "

BULGING BICEPS
This fighter may wield an Unwieldy weapon in one hand
rather than the usual two. Note that Unwieldy weapons
still take up the space of two weapons with regards to
how many a fighter may carry.

was it errata'd or FAQ'd?

and thanks for the input changed Leader to "Iron Will" instead also didnt see the 2 different clickers for add or buy....

 

[Sump Thing]

where does it say that it is only for CCW looking in the rulebook it just says "

BULGING BICEPS
This fighter may wield an Unwieldy weapon in one hand
rather than the usual two. Note that Unwieldy weapons
still take up the space of two weapons with regards to
how many a fighter may carry.

was it errata'd or FAQ'd?

No, that's how it is in the rule book.

So, basically you can use the heavy x-bow with one hand, but it's still unwieldy ranged weapon, the skill doesn't remove the trait, you'll still need a double action to shoot it. The description doesn't say the bulging biceps is for ccw only, but effectively it is, as shooting gets no benefit from it. Well, maybe the rule of cool...

 

[Freekill58]

No, that's how it is in the rule book.

So, basically you can use the heavy x-bow with one hand, but it's still unwieldy ranged weapon, the skill doesn't remove the trait, you'll still need a double action to shoot it. The description doesn't say the bulging biceps is for ccw only, but effectively it is, as shooting gets no benefit from it. Well, maybe the rule of cool...

this is where im getting confused. so what is the point in the skill for ccw if it doesnt remove the unwieldy trait? you get a 2HW and sidearm in CQC?

 

[Mr. M]

this is where im getting confused. so what is the point in the skill for ccw if it doesnt remove the unwieldy trait? you get a 2HW and sidearm in CQC?

If I recall correctly, it could allow a Goliath to wield a renderizer as well as a sidearm (or a second ccw). Kind of a bad skill, but maybe some people like it for conversions or just leaning into the random stuff that one can do in new Necromunda. It's a real shame the official rules were never changed to make bulging biceps more like the version from N95.

 

[Sump Thing]

It's a real shame the official rules were never changed to make bulging biceps more like the version from N95.

It was briefly when Necromunda: Underhive came out in Nov 2017, that Bulcing Biceps users could ignore the unwieldy trait. But in Gang War IV in Aug 2018, this was changed into the current one-handed version. It's probably one of these balance thingies, as in N95 every gang's designated heavy weapon user had access to the muscle/brawn skills, but now it's about half of them.

you get a 2HW and sidearm in CQC?

Yea, this is how it goes. Pretty useless as a starting skill, pretty useless later on as well, since there are much better things where to spend your hard earned xp. I think the usual starting skill for a shooting firebrand is Step Aside, as it gives some survivability in close combat.

 

[Vonvilkee]

Also back in the day (n95) skills were rolled randomly and I'm not remembering suspensors even existing...

Another example of credits over experience in the new edition.

 

[Lunarcruiser]

Bulging biceps allows you to use a two handed melee weapon in one hand so you can gain a extra attack with a second weapon. It could be a Sidearm or another Melee weapon. No benefit to shooting. The weapon still takes up two of your weapon choice slots, you usually have three slots. When using two Melee trait weapons you must split your attacks between the two weapons evenly.

There is a build where buldging biceps can do some serious work as a melee combatant though.
Buldging biceps allows all equipped two handed melee weapons to be wielded one handed. Normally you have three weapon choices and two handed melee weapons take up two.
The item Suspensors (60 credits) also let's you use a two handed melee weapon in one hand. It only applies to one weapon that you attach it too. It does nothing about them taking fewer weapon slots.
There is a item you can get from the trade post that allows to carry a additional weapon,the Suspensor harness. (40 credits). It gives you four weapon slots. Your Fire brand has both the chain glaive and great sword on their list both very nasty two-handed melee weapons with Versatile. It's mildly expensive (60 credits times two plus 40 for the harness, 160 total). Compare it to a 180 plus heavy weapon with required Suspensors and it's around the same price bracket and heavy weapons get a lot more expensive. You now have a melee champion duel wielding S+2 Ap-2 D2 attacks at Versatile range. 4 attacks on the charge to start. That's just plain nasty. The firebrand also has access to Combat master. Which makes Fight (Simple). Well positioned, or with a well timed Overseer order to move them into position that's a ton of nasty Versatile attacks.

 

[Sump Thing]

It's mildly expensive (60 credits times two plus 40 for the harness, 160 total). Compare it to a 180 plus heavy weapon with required Suspensors and it's around the same price bracket and heavy weapons get a lot more expensive. You now have a melee champion duel wielding S+2 Ap-2 D2 attacks at Versatile range. 4 attacks on the charge to start. That's just plain nasty. The firebrand also has access to Combat master. Which makes Fight (Simple). Well positioned, or with a well timed Overseer order to move them into position that's a ton of nasty Versatile attacks.

You are paying 100 creds for one extra attack? Wouldn't it be more cost effective to give the model a ranged weapon in addition of the stick. I mean the beauty of versatility is that once you have done a Fight action, you are no longer in combat, and if you are not in base contact, you can still make a Shoot if you have actions left, or the other way around. This way you wouldn't need to invest in Biceps or Combat Master either and could put your skills and xp on something else.

 

[Gdolkin]

I mean the beauty of versatility is that once you have done a Fight action, you are no longer in combat if you are not in base contact, so you can still make a Shoot if you have actions left, or the other way around.

Can't help myself, I'm not sure that's legit RAW or RAI. Versatile N23 p317:
"The wielder of a Versatile weapon does not need to be in base contact with an enemy model in order to engage them in melee during their activation.
They may engage and make close combat attacks against an enemy model during their activation, so long as the distance between their base and that of the enemy model is equal to or less than the distance shown for the Versatile weapon's Long range characteristic. For example, a fighter armed with a Versatile weapon with a Long range of 2" may engage an enemy model that is up to 2" away.

The enemy model is considered to be engaged, but may not in turn be Engaging the fighter armed with the Versatile weapon unless they too are armed with a Versatile weapon, and so may not be able to make Reaction attacks.

At all other times other than during this fighter's activation, Versatile has no effect."

I see how you've reached your above interpretation of this, but the way I read it nothing says that the Versatile-armed attacker is not still Engaging his opponent if after performing a Versatile Fight (Simple) action his opponent is still standing, and thus free to perform any other actions available to a Standing+Active fighter rather than only those allowed to a Standing+Engaged fighter, just that said opponent IS STILL (my interpretation/emphasis) "considered to be engaged, but may not in turn be Engaging the fighter armed with the Versatile weapon unless they too are armed with a Versatile weapon , and so may not be able to make Reaction attacks."
As I read that, the only 'beauty of Versatility' is that you can perform melee attacks via a Fight (Basic) action rather than solely by a Charge (Double) action if already positioned correctly, and that your opponent can't perform Reaction attacks unless also armed with Versatile, not that your Engaging status only lasts for the one Fight action and just expires and reverts to Active status even though you're still standing in the 2" Engagement range you've just happily swung your stick in without fear of immediate reprisal.
I'd say if you use your first action to hit a guy with your long stick and fail to drop him, you are still 'in combat' i.e. Engaging with him even if he can't reach to hit you back just yet, and should not be free to switch to 'not-engaged-anymore-so-i can-shoot-him-in-the-face-before-he-gets-close-enough-to-fight-back'. The quoted text talks about the the Versatile trait's effects "during the fighter's activation", not broken down into individual actions, and so overall my instinct would be that if you Engage via Versatile you remain Engaged on your part until your target's dead or someone retreats out of the Versatile range or the end of your activation. Same goes for cases where you find yourself in 2" of an enemy at the start of your activation but declare you're not subject to Engaged-via-Versatile Status until your second action cos you want to sneak a shot to the face in before swinging your stick.
I may be wrong, confused, or not considering other relevant factors, but my shenanigans radar is pinging.
Bloody Versatile, derailing threads since M2.47563!%£%£%@...

 

[Freekill58]

So just to get somewhere back in the sump hole of my list. Bulging biceps does not in any way help me even if it means holding my heavy crossbow one handed?

 

[Sump Thing]

I see how you've reached your above interpretation of this, but the way I read it nothing says that the Versatile-armed attacker is not still Engaging his opponent if after performing a Versatile Fight (Simple) action his opponent is still standing, and thus free to perform any other actions available to a Standing+Active fighter rather than only those allowed to a Standing+Engaged fighter, just that said opponent IS STILL (my interpretation/emphasis) "considered to be engaged, but may not in turn be Engaging the fighter armed with the Versatile weapon unless they too are armed with a Versatile weapon , and so may not be able to make Reaction attacks."

Ok, so if the models are still Standing & Engaged after the stick soldier's first fight (basic) action, does it mean the only action they can make are Fight or Retreat? Sucks to be the enemy model, if he's not carrying a stick of his own.

 

[Sump Thing]

So just to get somewhere back in the sump hole of my list. Bulging biceps does not in any way help me even if it means holding my heavy crossbow one handed?

No help at all.

 

[Gdolkin]

So just to get somewhere back in the sump hole of my list. Bulging biceps does not in any way help me even if it means holding my heavy crossbow one handed?

Not with firing the crossbow as anything but a Shoot (Double) action, no it does not. Suspensors is what you want for that.

 

[Gdolkin]

Ok, so if the models are still Standing & Engaged after the stick soldier's first fight (basic) action, does it mean the only action they can make are Fight or Retreat? Sucks to be the enemy model, if he's not carrying a stick of his own.

If by 'the models' you mean both attacker and target and by 'the only action they can make' you mean just the attacker who has failed to finish his target with his first action, yes that is my reading of it. I may be wrong, but perhaps anyone who wishes to discuss it should start a new thread so we don't foul up this Cawdor gang-build thread any more eh

 

[Sump Thing]

If by 'the models' you mean both attacker and target and by 'the only action they can make' you mean just the attacker who has failed to finish his target with his first action, yes that is my reading of it. I may be wrong, but perhaps anyone who wishes to discuss it should start a new thread so we don't foul up this Cawdor gang-build thread any more eh

Ok, so the stick wielder can shoot first and then poke?

 

[Lunarcruiser]

You are paying 100 creds for one extra attack? Wouldn't it be more cost effective to give the model a ranged weapon in addition of the stick. I mean the beauty of versatility is that once you have done a Fight action, you are no longer in combat, and if you are not in base contact, you can still make a Shoot if you have actions left, or the other way around. This way you wouldn't need to invest in Biceps or Combat Master either and could put your skills and xp on something else.

Oh yes as I said it's a expensive way to go, although cheaper than a properly equipped heavy weapon, it gives you a extra attack with your nasty chain glaive or great sword. It's not much but has a few advantages.
You don't need to split your attacks between different weapons. (in case your second weapon is worse. Unless you take equally painful weapon, say power sword and power hammer or similar having duel weapons for a multi attack champion actually weakens your overall attack as only half will be from the nasty one).
Having the chain glaive in one hand allows you to rapidly damage foes while the great sword had Sever to really put them down.
Also it creates a seriously nasty melee fighter for when you really need to put that Brute, Death Maiden, Stimmer or Naght ghul down. Yes they may be useless in a firefight but it is a very nasty counter charger for when you really need it.
There are some acts of faith that really synergize with melee fighters, one that does something to chain weapons I believe, that works well with the chain glaive fanatic missile.

Technical rules and proper tactics aside. This is my main reason for this argument. A duel wielding chain glaive fanatic charging manically into the foe is bonkers, insane and just so Cawdor. The only thing they need to top it off is a hat that's on fire

 

[Lunarcruiser]

So just to get somewhere back in the sump hole of my list. Bulging biceps does not in any way help me even if it means holding my heavy crossbow one handed?

It does not help you firing the heavy crossbow. You need Suspensors (60 credits) for that.
Bulging biceps only helps you get a extra melee attack.