ORB Novels being reprinted!

Ok, quick run down with my opinion:
  • Survival Instinct: Mad Donna's story told kinda like Wicked. I liked it which is funny as I don't like Wicked. Plus it had a ekranoplan.
  • Salvation: This is one of my favorites. Tons of intrigue about finding some ancient artifact that was supposed to be some key to controlling the hive (can't remember exactly & it wasn't important since the book was all about the quest).
  • Junktion: I really wanted to like this one more since the setting was so cool (what's not to like about giant dandelions?), but I found the main character really irritating. Their settlement is attacked by uphivers and even though he is targeted directly he seems only interested in keeping his head down. It doesn't even like he's interested in saving his own skin so much as lacks motivation to do anything.
  • Fleshworks: I liked this one. It was a Delaque centric novel about bionics requisition.
  • Back from the Dead: A fun zombie story about an enforcer trying to redeem himself.
  • Outlander: An examination of House Cawdor. It wasn't as good as the others as the characters poorly developed.
  • Kal Jerico: I just don't care for him, so having so much fiction focused on him is somewhat irritating. Of course if they publish another one, I'll likely be first in line to buy it.
There are two things I've learned from all this fiction:
  1. GW is fascinated with characters who fall from the upper spire or at least come down in some real and figurative way. I would like more stories that are just from the underhive. In that sense, a lot of Status Deadzone really appeal to me.
  2. No one who writes for GW has any idea how a hive is laid out. Junktion does the best job and Back from the Dead missed it completely.
 
Throwing in my two creds... I've only read a few of the Necromunda novels, and it's been years since I revisited them, but here's what I thought:

Status: Deadzone is a mix of good and bad, but there's enough worthwhile stuff in it to make it worth a look. It's also of historical interest, as I think it was the only Necromunda novel released during 1st edition's run (pre-Black Library).* The others were all put out in the 2000s.

*EDIT: I dug out my copy and oops, I tell a lie :eek: Status: Deadzone is indeed a Black Library publication and the copyright date is 2000. I always thought it came out a lot earlier. Huh.

I found the first two Kal Jerico novels (Blood Royal and Lasgun Wedding) a bit meh. They suffered a bit from Ciaphas Cain syndrome, i.e. they thought they were funnier than they actually were.

Salvation had me worried as it's a CS Goto book, and he doesn't have the best reputation, but it's a reasonably fun romp with a hapless archaeologist getting mixed up in complicated inter-House ploys. The ending is both amusingly ironic and painfully anticlimactic, though...

Survival Instinct is my favourite of the Necromunda novels and the only one I've kept (I've also hung onto the Status: Deadzone anthology). I wouldn't call it great literature, but it's the only one I've read that feels properly Necromundan. Probably because Andy Chambers wrote it. Two things bother me about it, though... (mild spoilers ahead...)

The first is that some of the descriptions of Underhive settlements in Survival Instinct are shamelessly recycled from the 1st edition rulebook and sourcebook flavour text. (Of course it's quite possible Chambers wrote those passages for the game in the first place.) On the other hand, it gets the Necromunda flavour 'right' for that very reason, unlike many of the other Black Library efforts.

The second thing I dislike about it is the scene midway through when Mad Donna chops a guy up with her chainsword. That crossed the gore line for me even by Black Library standards and made me feel queasy. (Donna getting off on the whole thing didn't help.)

It's a shame as I like the rest of the book, especially the final set-piece battle and general authentic Necromundan weirdness. (That bit with the plague zombies, brrr.) But the choppy-chop scene has kept me from recommending or lending it to other people out of sheer discomfort. I've never heard anyone else complain about it, though, so you may well be fine with it :)
 
Last edited:
It's a shame as I like the rest of the book, especially the final set-piece battle and general authentic Necromundan weirdness. (That bit with the plague zombies, brrr.) But the choppy-chop scene has kept me from recommending or lending it to other people out of sheer discomfort. I've never heard anyone else complain about it, though, so you may well be fine with it
I just thought it spoke to her general unbalanced/unhingedness. She could seem so reasonable most of the time, but then was capable of true horror.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DArquebus
I am sure I have read it... ages ago... never thought any of it was particularly eyebrow raising... maybe I jsut didnt register it properly... might ahve to try and dig them out and give it a re read over xmas
 
I just thought it spoke to her general unbalanced/unhingedness. She could seem so reasonable most of the time, but then was capable of true horror.

I agree it makes sense for her character. Just could have done with a gore discretion shot, I thought. (Donna revs chainsword, guy starts screaming, cut to black. Or something.)

Of course, that's not exactly how Black Library rolls. People would have complained. :whistle:
 
  • Like
Reactions: spafe
So the classic obscenity rules for the stage? If it's too horrific it must be off stage even if you can still hear what's happening?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zenithfleet
So the classic obscenity rules for the stage? If it's too horrific it must be off stage even if you can still hear what's happening?

Hmm. Very interesting question that kept my brain occupied during a long bus trip, so thank you. (y)

Normally I would say the key question is whether the violence/horror is included to achieve a particular artistic or storytelling effect, or whether it's just there as gratuitous indulgence.

Speaking strictly about my own personal preference, and not imposing it on anyone else: I do generally prefer extreme violence/horror to be kept offstage or left up to the imagination. I'm not really a fan of Black Library novels for this reason. I'll put up with it for the sake of a good story, though, or when it's employed to achieve a particular effect (GRR Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire, Mary Gentle's Ash books, etc.)

The first Alien film knew when to keep the horror offscreen (most of the deaths) and when to show it front-and-centre for maximum impact (the chestburster scene). On the other hand, I didn't like the way the violence was handled in the Starship Troopers movie. It felt like it was just there because hey, why not.

Obviously YMMV, as TV Tropes says. (One person in my family loves gory zombie flicks, which I can't stomach--while another can't even watch the Lord of the Rings films due to the battle scenes, which seem quite tame to me. Different strokes...)

However...

Black Library books are a tricky case because they're tie-in novels. This means they're quite restricted in what they can and can't do. Or at least they were when I read them back in the 2000s. They may have loosened up a bit these days; I'm not sure. But I doubt their writers have the artistic freedom that the author of an ordinary fantasy or sf novel does.

My general impression is that when you pick up a BL book, there's an unwritten understanding that you're gonna get a) a lot of fighting, with b) a lot of blood and guts. That's part of the appeal for a lot of people. I don't think it's a matter of 'Hey, no censorship! You can show the violence!' You must. It's like the reverse of the stage obscenity rule. The reading audience expects it.

Contrast this with, say, Star Wars tie-in novels, which are a lot more sanitised, in keeping with the style of the films.

(Meanwhile BL books--or at least the few I've read--do follow the stage obscenity rule when it comes to sex and swearing, which makes for a weird mix sometimes.)

So to my mind a lot of the violence in BL novels is gratuitous in one sense... yet in another way it's essential. It's there whether or not it serves the story--but if it wasn't there, the audience would feel cheated. Like a musical with no actual musical numbers. You wouldn't be getting what you were paying for.

If you got that level of violence in a Star Wars tie-in novel, you would likely feel repulsed, because you don't go to Star Wars for litres of blood or the brutal realities of war.

In the case of Survival Instinct I suspect that Chambers may not have been able to make an artistic choice about whether to show Donna's choppy-chop scene or not. It would simply be a given that if Donna does something violent, it must be shown.

This doesn't mean he would have left the scene out if he could. I'm fairly sure he had no problem with it. He seems like a cheerful fan of the good ol' ultraviolence. :) It just means we can't necessarily assume the scene is so graphic for purely artistic/storytelling reasons--to show the full horror Donna is capable of, or whatever. It may well be there because that's just how BL books work.

The question then becomes: if we must show her cut the guy up, how exactly do we describe it without losing the reader's empathy for her?

A scene like that runs the risk of making the reader lose interest in finishing the book, because they just don't want to spend any more time in that character's head. This can happen even if the character's actions make perfect sense in the context of the story. (The first Thomas Covenant fantasy novel, published in the 70s I believe, was infamous for this due to a rape scene. Another common no-go zone is cruelty to animals, especially pets.)

IIRC the guy Donna chops up betrayed her earlier and nearly succeeded in getting her killed. Plus she's repeatedly described as being completely unhinged and insanely violent. So what she does to the guy is perfectly in character and plausible. Yet I felt my enthusiasm to keep reading wobble dangerously. I almost shut the book and gave up at that point. I'm glad I didn't, because I enjoyed the rest of it. But I think it could have been better handled. I felt the descriptions crossed the line into torture porn at some points.

There was one sentence in particular about Donna feeling 'almost orgasmic joy' that was way over the top. (Quoting from memory here.) Again, it's totally in character for Donna to feel that way. It's just that I was like, 'Wait, I'm meant to take this psycho's side and care about their problems and follow them through this story? As the protagonist/hero, not the villain? Yeah, nah.'

Stabbing the noble creep in the eye with a fork? No problem. Shearing off that Goliath's head with broken glass? Fair enough. But hot chainsword on toe action was beyond my personal tolerance zone.

(I also remember raising an eyebrow at the fact that they could include that in a BL book, but not an everyday non-torture-related orgasm. Like I said, a weird mix.)

And yet... as mentioned, I've never heard anyone else complain about that scene. Why not?

It might be because the BL readership is self-selected. If you're not a fan of violent stuff, you probably won't read the book in the first place. It's not like the aforementioned Thomas Covenant example, which was probably read back in the day by every single person who liked The Lord of the Rings and were expecting something similar. More like horror flicks--if you don't like 'em, you just don't watch 'em.

And the subset of people who would read a Necromunda novel during the game's comparative obscurity in the 2000s is smaller still. So you've narrowed down the audience quite a bit. Someone like me, who reads the occasional BL book because they love the worlds but aren't really into the bolter porn, is probably an outlier.

TL;DR--it's not you, it's me :p
 
Ok, so I did actually read all that. I see what you're saying and on top of that I think that most story tellers, in addition to risking losing reader by saying/showing too much, forget that there is nothing that they can write that is worse than what someone will imagine is happening off screen. A good example (the whole episode is good, but the point is made about 2:45-4:25):
There is nothing that they could possibly have shown that would have done that scene justice or made it scarier.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zenithfleet
her happy tone is probably what makes that scene so scary. and her matter-of-fact “i’ll just go put him back together.”
 
  • Like
Reactions: nooker
Hopefully they'll be printed & sent before Christmas. The only info on the site seems to be within 30-odd days of December the 8th., but they are pushing them as a Christmas thing so fingers crossed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nooker
Oops, got a reply notification for this but it slipped my mind. :cautious:

Ok, so I did actually read all that. I see what you're saying and on top of that I think that most story tellers, in addition to risking losing reader by saying/showing too much, forget that there is nothing that they can write that is worse than what someone will imagine is happening off screen. A good example (the whole episode is good, but the point is made about 2:45-4:25):
[Red vs Blue vid]
There is nothing that they could possibly have shown that would have done that scene justice or made it scarier.

Haha, that was great. Haven't seen Red vs Blue in years.

I would call that scene comic though, not scary. But your point applies to comedy as well. Implying something can be funnier than showing it.

(Random example: the movie Johnny English, starring Rowan Atkinson. IIRC near the end he thinks the bishop is an impostor, and knows the fake can be identified by a birthmark on his bum, so he pulls down the bishop's pants in front of a huge audience... except of course it's the real bishop after all. Unfortunately you actually see the bishop's rear end, which weirdly makes it less funny than if it had been just out of shot.)

Edit: Meant to add that for terror/horror, very tight constraints on what you're allowed to show can actually encourage creatively scary ideas. You get this with family shows like Doctor Who, which can't even show blood... so you get all manner of unusually disconcerting deaths instead, like that Martian gun in the last series that compresses you into a bouncy ball of limbs. :eek:

I'm getting off topic though... so let me say that I'm especially glad to see the Redeemer comic make a return. Only read bits of it up till now, but like what I've seen. Scourge and purge!
 
So I ended up getting Survival Instinct, Status: Deadzone and the Kal Jerico comics, thanks for the advice everyone! I wish I could have bought them all. I will get the Kal Jerico novels at some point too, but for those I don’t have to rush. Can’t wait to receive the books and get reading :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Malo and DArquebus
Still no sign of the POD books, but I've started reading the Kal Jerico omnibus.

I'm only ~150 or so pages in, but so far I'm enjoying it. A couple of things are off though. What's a Pulse Rifle in the 40k universe for instance? Why does everyone and their dog have a needle weapon? And why are all the women "buxom"? Boobs are mentioned a lot :LOL:

I don't think it's as funny as the writer thought it was, but I'm still enjoying it (y)
 
Last edited:
Haha the overuse of 'buxom' and over estimation of one's wittiness and hilarity is a pretty common problem with fantasy writers :p Doesn't generally stop me enjoying a decent novel though (y) I'll be picking that one up sometime next year too, don't know if my Black Library stuff has arrived yet but it was shipped about two weeks ago, so I assume it'll be waiting for me when I get back. Looking forward to many good reads :D
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stoof
Hmm, my order is still just "Acknowledged" and "Awaiting Packing". I suppose it depends what you ordered and what order they're printing them in.

It is a bit of a let down, as they were pushing them as Christmas gifts with apparently no ability to actually supply them on time for Christmas.
 
Yeah that might be the case, especially if you ordered all of them you could be waiting a bit longer I guess. I only got three, so perhaps I got lucky and they were the first three that got printed.
 
My order has been dispatched now, so I'm looking forward to it arriving. Handy timing as I've just started Lasgun Wedding so it should arrive before I've finished that and my underhive readathon can continue!

I wasn't a fan of Cardinal Crimson. It was all very predictable and even the action wasn't that actiony compared to Blood Royal. I don't get on so well with spiritual 40K stories with miracles and things - I much prefer the harsh hopeless realities of hive life.

Hopefully Lasgun Wedding is better - it looks promising from the first couple of chapters anyway.

To paraphrase what @nooker says above - nobody writing for GW at the time seemed to know how a hive was laid out or had read much fluff. The hive in the Kal Jerico stories seems to feel quite small - more like a large town or small city. Everything happens within walking distance of everything else - even the jaunts between the Underhive & Hive City. The docks are described like they're the only docks in Hive City, for instance. Hagan's Hole is somehow the premier place to go for bounty hunters in the entire underhive. Underhive criminals like Nemo have inexplicable ties direct to the Spire & House Helmawr. Despite it being mentioned in one of the books that Yolanda can use a Spyrer rig only because of the implants she has, a random Wildcat ganger manages to use it during a fight with some Goliaths, and getting spare parts for the damaged rig in the underhive is treated like a minor inconvenience rather than borderline impossible.
 
Last edited:
I finished reading Survival Instinct last night. Generally pretty good. Now, I don't know if I'm some kind of psychopath, desensitised by too much Game of Thrones, or they've censored it for the reprint or what, but I presume the "choppy choppy" scene mentioned earlier was a certain Delaque bounty hunter meeting his demise in the bar before the big Scavvy fight breaks out? Seventy-one becoming Seventy-six? If so, I was unmoved. I don't feel it was that bad. Nothing there repulsed me to any great extent. I kept waiting for a super gory sickening scene that just never arrived o_O

The story was pretty good, and ekranoplans are cool, but it wasn't the best Necromunda story I've read.

Salvation on the other hand was great fun. Seeing the Underhive from the viewpoint of someone completely unprepared was a nice change. The ending got a bit muddled and it was a shame it just... ended. But the journey was fun. I would have liked there to be something amazing hidden at the end, but that's not very grimdark.

Amongst all this I've also read the Kal Jerico comic collection in dribs and drabs. They're generally fairly nice extra bits, worth a look for some cool depictions of the underhive if nothing else. There was one where everything was wrong though (homecoming). Scabbs was a mildly spotty teenager, Yolanda was some kind of 90s baywatch bimbo, scavvies were tooled up Van Saar, and nothing looked remotely underhivey. I have no idea what happened there.

I got hold of an old copy of Double Eagle recently, so I'm heading to the skies next!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: maxwellrpower
From the new ones for my library (Kal Jerico), Outlander, Back from the Dead, Fleshworks - I've only read Outlander and started Kal Jerico and Fleshworks.

I really enjoyed Outlander. No major surprises but it coloured the Underhive experience well and showed how the Gang/ Township mechanics worked in close detail. Plus a closer look at Cawdor which is a house I've never really gotten into before so pretty cool.

I 2nd (3rd?) the opinion about a lot of weirdness for first Jerico book. I think that having read 2nd novel (Cardinal Crimson) before as well that overall I vastly prefer the Graphic Novels to the written novels for him.

Fleshworks is going well so far. Feel like a Necromunda novel and the Delaque are one of my preferred gangs as well so the insight into them is cool.