Old v New Necro/Inquisimunda

[tom9richards]

Hey all,

Apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere.

So now necromunda 2017 has been out a while, what are people's thoughts, better than the old ruleset? Big fan of NCE but I've only just got the new boxed set so not up on the rules so much yet.

Im asking as I'm scaling down my hobbying. Due to work/kids etc I've decided to get rid of most of my 40k stuff as it just grows and grows. I want every faction! What I plan on doing is focus on my favourite game, necromunda. I'll keep some stand alone games (lost patrol, space hulk, Blackstone Fortress, a mordheim gang).

This will allow me to play good ol necromunda but also inquisimuda, meaning I can have a variedbunch of 40k minis without having a whole army for every faction.

So yeah, which ruleset do I use? Is there even any inquisimunda rules for N17?

 

[Stoof]

I think there are N17 Inquisimunda rules in development, but I don't venture to that part of the forum often. As for ruleset preference... I still prefer NCE.

N17 has some great new models, it's fun and quick paced once you have some house rules in place to solve common problems - yet I have never felt an attachment to it like I have with the original. I loved ORB since the first time I played it all those years ago, yet my first memory of playing N17 is my opponent asking "so do I need to get into base to base contact to charge or what?", followed by a frustrating few games flicking through scattered and contradictory rules trying to make sense of them. I think that's left a persistent mark on it in my mind that is taking a long time to fade.

In 23 years time I have doubts whether anyone will be looking back on N17 with the same fondness players look back on ORB.

But back to your plans - what is it you actually want to do? If you want to play games and your friends all play N17 then there's little point in choosing NCE as your one game. And if you pick one, then you may as well pick both - you can already happily use original gangs in N17, and at some point there will be a "patch" to put N17 weapons into NCE (we actually started work on it ages ago - just never finished), so the gangs can do double duty in either game. As for space taken up... N18 is just two books so far whilst NCE is just a couple of pdfs - very little room taken up there - and any terrain can be used just as well for both games.

 

[tom9richards]

The original ruleset has fond memories for me as well, and the work done on NCE is fantastic, it really achieved what it set out to do and balanced/streamlined an already solid system.

I forgot to ask in OP if work was being done to integrate new weapons and models into the NCE. Sticking with NCE is my preference but I also thought that if we wanted to expand our small gaming group then is everyone else playing N17?

No harm in using both rulesets as and when I guess.

 

[Tiny]

I prefer the original rules.

If your group is mature enough and happy to play a more roleplay-centric campaign, a really easy way of playing Inquisimunda with ORB / NCE rules is to simply use regular house gangs but to make all equipment common to everyone, including mutations, Pit Slave weapons, Scavvy weappons etc. and to allow access to all skill tables. You can allow players to purchase xp at 10xp = 10 creds at the start of a campaign if you want more advanced characters.

You can then just build the warband you want with no limitations, simply advancing your fighters as per their character. This may not work so well if your group likes to play more competitive min-max games, but then Inquisimunda may not be the game for that.

 

[TopsyKretts]

The good: A fresh new game fun to play.
The bad: Parts of the new game doesn't work. I would recommend replacing all the new rules for XP, territories and campaign with original Necromunda.
The ugly: GW decided to shit on Necromunda with the development and release process.

 

[Tiny]

I forgot to ask in OP if work was being done to integrate new weapons and models into the NCE. Sticking with NCE is my preference but I also thought that if we wanted to expand our small gaming group then is everyone else playing N17?

A group of us had started working on Inquisimunda 3.0 but that kinda fell flat with the release of N17. I hope to go back to it someday but super busy at the moment.

 

[jonbo]

I played a lot of ORB Necromunda, half a dozen Inquisimunda campaigns and am now into a fourth long-running N17 campaign. I find the N17 rules to be much slicker to ORB in most instances, and most of the gripes and niggles to my mind have been ironed out with the publication of the compilation. The Dominion campaign is a significant improvement on the Turf War, and I'm looking forward to new campaign types promised with future publications. N17 also has the huge advantage of being live and current, meaning that new players who haven't previously experienced Necromunda can buy in easily to a system that has a family resemblance to other current GW games.

I loved Inquisimunda for it's variety and the scale and scope of the warbands. That said it suffered from its own holes and inconsistencies, and we ended up house-ruling over some of the areas which weren't definitive.

If you want to play Inquisimunda with N17 rules, it would be a bit of an exercise to generate non-human profiles, although you could relatively easily create an Inquisitor and retinue with the Venator list. Kill Team might be another option if you are dead-set on playing 40k skirmish.

I'm also hugely positive about the direction Necromunda is being taken by GW. Yes, the release schedule wasn't ideal, but the reasons behind that (small studio and production resource through Specialist Games) are well documented, and we now have a stable and usable definitive ruleset with the compilation books. From this point on I believe we will only see supplements and enhancements, rather than changes to the underlying rules...and when you look at what is planned (see the Horus Heresy weekender presentation), it's very exciting indeed!

 

[Trafalgar Law]

It's a mixed bag for me. There's stuff I prefer from the old version (mostly the campaign rules) and there's stuff I prefer in the new version (mostly the core rules) and then again there's some things that I'd change in both versions (close combat mainly - don't like the flat roll to hit in the new system and the old system was too clunky.).

 

[Tiny]

Venator gangs would appear to work well for N17 Inquisimunda. Just have everyone in the group play a different Venator gang. They're an awful inclusion for Necromunda but a fantastic thing for Inquisimunda. Maybe GW should have just left Necromunda as it was and produced a 28mm Inquisitor game instead?

 

[tom9richards]

I prefer the original rules.

If your group is mature enough and happy to play a more roleplay-centric campaign, a really easy way of playing Inquisimunda with ORB / NCE rules is to simply use regular house gangs but to make all equipment common to everyone, including mutations, Pit Slave weapons, Scavvy weappons etc. and to allow access to all skill tables. You can allow players to purchase xp at 10xp = 10 creds at the start of a campaign if you want more advanced characters.

I've haven't yet played inquisimunda but definitely want to go down the rpg route with it as I think this element (along with the lore) made ORB so much fun. Expanding off-world into the rest of the galaxy opens up so much storytelling and converting opportunities. I already have plans for gsc/chaos/dark mechanicus/necron story arcs with what I've left of my 40k stuff. Thanks for the tips, makes it very easy to customise warbands for NCE

If you want to play Inquisimunda with N17 rules, it would be a bit of an exercise to generate non-human profiles, although you could relatively easily create an Inquisitor and retinue with the Venator list. Kill Team might be another option if you are dead-set on playing 40k skirmish.

This extra legwork (along with nostalgia I guess) expanding N17 to cover Inquisimunda does put me off. I've kept some unpainted primaris just in case I pick up Killteam.

Venator gangs would appear to work well for N17 Inquisimunda. Just have everyone in the group play a different Venator gang. They're an awful inclusion for Necromunda but a fantastic thing for Inquisimunda. Maybe GW should have just left Necromunda as it was and produced a 28mm Inquisitor game instead?

I had the Inquisitor book and loved the expansion of lore and the narrative opportunities, 28mm Inquisitior has never been easier with the Blackstone Fortress and Killteam Rogue Trader minis!

 

[Lysimachus]

There are a few different Inquisimunda 'patches' for N18 in the Vault, the one I've been working on is here:

https://yaktribe.games/community/vault/inquisimunda-unleashed.909/

Based on a mix of Skirmish game gang creation rules, plus species/character types based on a variety of gang profiles (Venators in particular), plus total freedom to pick from the Trading Post.

 

[Petitioner's City]

There are a few different Inquisimunda 'patches' for N18 in the Vault, the one I've been working on is here:

https://yaktribe.games/community/vault/inquisimunda-unleashed.909/

Based on a mix of Skirmish game gang creation rules, plus species/character types based on a variety of gang profiles (Venators in particular), plus total freedom to pick from the Trading Post.

These are really good! Very flexible. Although no rules for space mariens?

 

[Lysimachus]

These are really good! Very flexible. Although no rules for space mariens?

Thanks! I did think about including a proper profile for Marines but I wasn't sure if it would be OP?

One way for these rules might be to use a Beastman+Warrior with skills/advances chosen to increase Str/T...

or alternatively an Ogryn+Warrior (or Gunner?) with boosts to Initiative or mental stats...

Either way, then add Marine equipment; bolter, bolt pistol, f+k grenades, chainsword, etc and light Carapace armour plus armoured undersuit for a 3+ PA equivalent.

 

[spafe]

They're an awful inclusion for Necromunda

out of curiosity... why?

 

[Tiny]

out of curiosity... why?

They just seem to be an excuse for players to jam any old crap into a gang, which to me ruins the setting.

I've seen all sorts of "Venator" gangs on Facebook, from standard Bounty Hunters (why is every other gang in Hive Primus a gang of Bounty Hunters?) to pretty much any Kill Team you can think of, including Space Marine scouts, Necron Warriors, Tau, Orks...etc. If that's what you and your mates are into, that's cool but for me it kinda kills the immersion. May as well just play Kill Team.

Secondly they appear to be pretty OP if abused, something which complaints on various FB groups have confirmed, which is poor rule writing and ruins the fun for people who actually stick to a fluffy house gang.

 

[spafe]

fair points, esp the kill team sorta thing.

Don't agree with the bounty hunter point though... I've not seen more than one venators gang in most groups (although not looked for them tbh). I'd be more annoyed if I joined a group with bucket loads of van saar players personally.

 

[Tiny]

Don't agree with the bounty hunter point though... I've not seen more than one venators gang in most groups (although not looked for them tbh). I'd be more annoyed if I joined a group with bucket loads of van saar players personally.

Yeah, any high percentage of any one gang usually points to some kind of rules bias, which Van Saar definitely seem to have in N17 (not actually looked at their N18 counterpart), far above and beyond their popularity in ORB / NCE (or lack thereof in some groups due to people not wanting to be accused of playing "the cheese"). In terms of Bounty Hunters I'm just going off the sheer number of people on Yak and the various FB groups who seem to be continually posting a new Venator gang plus Forge World constantly pushing out new Bounty Hunter minis and very little else. IMO even if only 10% of players are playing Bounty Hunters, that is far too many Bounty Hunters to be representative of a realistic population.

 

[jonbo]

Venator gangs give a nice option for people to use something a little different, although I'd much rather that people used themed models than simply dropping in Tau or Marine scouts or similar. I'm glad they're in the game, and the single Venator gang we have in our current campaign doesn't seem over-powered in the slightest, and is beautifully modelled around dock workers and their guards. Van Saar aren't proving too successful either as it happens - Delaques are the house everyone is struggling against!

We've actually found Escher to be the most popular gang to date. Over 3 campaigns, the gang tallies are as follows (~12-15 players/campaign):

Escher - 13 gangs
Goliath - 12 gangs
Van Saar - 8 gangs
Delaque - 6 gangs
Orlock - 5 gangs
Chaos cult - 4 gangs
Genestealer cult - 2 gangs
Cawdor - 2 gangs
Venators - 1 gang

 

[tom9richards]

What are people's thoughts regarding a campaigns composition gang wise? Outlander gangs except maybe scavvies would be uncommon and a chaos or 'stealer Cult would surely be as rare as it gets. The vast majority of turf wars would be between House gangs right?

Limits on gang type in a campaign would make it more realistic (if that's how you like your imaginary dystopian sci-fi gang warfare on a made up planet in the future), but then a rule like that wouldn't be overly popular. I know I'd be dying to try out my newest non house gang!

 

[Tiny]

What are people's thoughts regarding a campaigns composition gang wise? Outlander gangs except maybe scavvies would be uncommon and a chaos or 'stealer Cult would surely be as rare as it gets. The vast majority of turf wars would be between House gangs right?

It would depend on where your campaign was set I guess.

If its set in the wastes around the sump maybe a high prevalence of Scavvy Gangs would make sense.

Set it near a slaver town and a bunch of Pit Slaves in an uprising may make sense.

Near the Hive Wall and a few Ash Wastes gangs wouldn't be out of place.

For the most part, mostly house gangs makes sense though.

Cults should definitely be super rare, as should gangs of Bounty Hunters and other specialised gangs like Spyrers.