No. 1 opening statement/disclaimer - this is not The Sump. Just a discussion.
The Direction of Necromunda AKA the N17-20 Series.
Just reading through another thread or two and it lead me to doing some sunny day musing, so I’m just slapping a few thoughts out here.
The direction that Neomunda has taken over the last few years has been a bit all over the place. It’s been discussed in length about the various failings and triumphs but I just wanted to talk a out what direction Specialist Games may be heading and if the should and other possible (community) directions.
So first off it seems like the SG team have got themselves stuck at a crossroads, one with three conflicting branches:
So lets start with...
The Trading Post.
I'm pretty sure this "feature" has been retroactively back ported into the game as designed by James Hewitt, which according to his Goonhammer interview was a crazy mix of differing briefs he had to crunch together. The eventual Trading Post saw light in Gang War 3 which was long after he had left the project and it was being maintained by another set of designers.
The fan reaction to much of the Underhive box was a little mixed and the lack of weapons, being only what was on the sprue, plus the fact that I'd guess most of the player base skipped that version for the Gang War (1) supplement probably lead to the designers stuffing a Trading Post back into a system that has had it excised.
Problem is...
House Weapons Lists.
...which have differing prices to the ones in the Trading Post. This can lead to issues on selling or calculating things and armour wasn't officially detachable* nor any means of getting rid of its official point bloat when equipping new armour. Now this has been corrected in the House of ??? books to start with no armour but it does show that the system was set up at is beginning with armour very much integrated into the profiles of the fighters, right up until Gangs of the Underhive.
So not only do we have these house lists but we have house specific weapons as well as discounts and these are clearly intended to drive a certain "flavour" or "fluff" aspect, and while it seems some houses have benefited from that, others seemingly haven't. Take Cawdor for example. Now at present its HoF book hasn't been released so things may change but as it stands this is supposed to be the poor house, who cobble together weapons from junk and like burning things to purify them, as if their faith. So why are their 3 flamer weapons so highly priced? They had every opportunity to whip 25% off the cost of the weapons to encourage using them but they didn't. Nor did they make dangerous reclaimed versions. Instead you got the blunderbuss which seems to serve the same purpose... so why have the flamer stuff in there then? Fluff?
Preferred Gang Builds.
Its been noted a few times that gangs seem to have a preferred build from their creators, almost as if they expected you play in a specific way with them. This is often borne out in the costs to build some miniatures and with the House books its more apparent with restrictive fighter weapon lists.
This has led to a situation where the three system conflict. What is the point of the Trading Post carrying so many weapons when now various fighter classes can't access them and the ones that can it would probably be pointless/a waste giving them a lesser weapon. Why have house weapon lists when fighters are clearly being priced into certain directions?
Where are they going?
It does look increasingly likely that with the House "Codexes" we're getting a 40k style gang building system but one that they haven't fully committed to. Why buy a Goliath Bruiser (Ganger) and mess about adding armour and weapons and all that when they could've just gone back to 2017 and sold you him complete with armour and a stubcannon as standard, offering weapon upgrades as +so many points for a combat shotgun etc. What they're offering is the illusion of choice now, there are still options on there which are completely sub optimal and yet at the same time they've whipped away your ability to "rule of cool" it with stuff that doesn't appear on their individual lists. Why is a Renderizer a champion only weapon? If a Ganger can wield a massive axe then they could a Renderizer - in fact why is lots of little blades better than one big one? It looks more likely that you'd snap one off hitting something hard.
Also the Trading Post itself is mysteriously absent from recent releases and even this mythical PDF hasn't materialised. Most people offer up the idea that you should get the GotU for it - but you don't need it to play - everything you need is in your Gang House book now. It's kinda surplus to requirements - for weapons at least.
If they do issue it on PDF, don't be surprised if it eventually becomes just a list of wargear and occasional fancy item. It really doesn't need the standard guns on it.
The Black Market has a place where it contains things that appear on no House Lists at all - its all contraband so it still works. Effectively in a HWL only system the Black Market is the new Trading Post.
I also wouldn't be surprised to see the campaigns divorced from the main rule books too. That way they can sell us campaign environment expansions, such as Ash Wastes, The Skull etc, each of which comes with its own campaign suited to that environment (and possibly a Trading Post with items tailored to it too).
We've already had three campaigns in the system already and it seems to me the Dark Uprising themed one is the taster to see if these environment expansions have legs.
So what would like to see from Future-munda releases?
An open system much like ORB and NCE where all weapons are centralised and anyone can dip in and customise to their hearts delight?
A system that each House has its own weapons supplier only. You shop there for your goods, which allows pricing restructuring to account for the theming of each house but still gives you flexibility to assign weapons how you like to fighters.
A system that you buy a fighter and it comes pre-rolled with weapons and armour to fit a designated role but you have the option to upgrade certain weapons, armour and gear for X creds.
I think I know which one's you'll pick and I also suspect the one you don't is the one they're going for, after all it started like that back in 2017!
What do you think about detached campaigns linked to environments and not the rulebook?
*there was no rule. Just an advisory from some Facebook group.
The Direction of Necromunda AKA the N17-20 Series.
Just reading through another thread or two and it lead me to doing some sunny day musing, so I’m just slapping a few thoughts out here.
The direction that Neomunda has taken over the last few years has been a bit all over the place. It’s been discussed in length about the various failings and triumphs but I just wanted to talk a out what direction Specialist Games may be heading and if the should and other possible (community) directions.
So first off it seems like the SG team have got themselves stuck at a crossroads, one with three conflicting branches:
- A traditional Trading Post, much like the 1995 game.
- House Weapons Lists
- Preferred Gang Builds.
So lets start with...
The Trading Post.
I'm pretty sure this "feature" has been retroactively back ported into the game as designed by James Hewitt, which according to his Goonhammer interview was a crazy mix of differing briefs he had to crunch together. The eventual Trading Post saw light in Gang War 3 which was long after he had left the project and it was being maintained by another set of designers.
The fan reaction to much of the Underhive box was a little mixed and the lack of weapons, being only what was on the sprue, plus the fact that I'd guess most of the player base skipped that version for the Gang War (1) supplement probably lead to the designers stuffing a Trading Post back into a system that has had it excised.
Problem is...
House Weapons Lists.
...which have differing prices to the ones in the Trading Post. This can lead to issues on selling or calculating things and armour wasn't officially detachable* nor any means of getting rid of its official point bloat when equipping new armour. Now this has been corrected in the House of ??? books to start with no armour but it does show that the system was set up at is beginning with armour very much integrated into the profiles of the fighters, right up until Gangs of the Underhive.
So not only do we have these house lists but we have house specific weapons as well as discounts and these are clearly intended to drive a certain "flavour" or "fluff" aspect, and while it seems some houses have benefited from that, others seemingly haven't. Take Cawdor for example. Now at present its HoF book hasn't been released so things may change but as it stands this is supposed to be the poor house, who cobble together weapons from junk and like burning things to purify them, as if their faith. So why are their 3 flamer weapons so highly priced? They had every opportunity to whip 25% off the cost of the weapons to encourage using them but they didn't. Nor did they make dangerous reclaimed versions. Instead you got the blunderbuss which seems to serve the same purpose... so why have the flamer stuff in there then? Fluff?
Preferred Gang Builds.
Its been noted a few times that gangs seem to have a preferred build from their creators, almost as if they expected you play in a specific way with them. This is often borne out in the costs to build some miniatures and with the House books its more apparent with restrictive fighter weapon lists.
This has led to a situation where the three system conflict. What is the point of the Trading Post carrying so many weapons when now various fighter classes can't access them and the ones that can it would probably be pointless/a waste giving them a lesser weapon. Why have house weapon lists when fighters are clearly being priced into certain directions?
Where are they going?
It does look increasingly likely that with the House "Codexes" we're getting a 40k style gang building system but one that they haven't fully committed to. Why buy a Goliath Bruiser (Ganger) and mess about adding armour and weapons and all that when they could've just gone back to 2017 and sold you him complete with armour and a stubcannon as standard, offering weapon upgrades as +so many points for a combat shotgun etc. What they're offering is the illusion of choice now, there are still options on there which are completely sub optimal and yet at the same time they've whipped away your ability to "rule of cool" it with stuff that doesn't appear on their individual lists. Why is a Renderizer a champion only weapon? If a Ganger can wield a massive axe then they could a Renderizer - in fact why is lots of little blades better than one big one? It looks more likely that you'd snap one off hitting something hard.
Also the Trading Post itself is mysteriously absent from recent releases and even this mythical PDF hasn't materialised. Most people offer up the idea that you should get the GotU for it - but you don't need it to play - everything you need is in your Gang House book now. It's kinda surplus to requirements - for weapons at least.
If they do issue it on PDF, don't be surprised if it eventually becomes just a list of wargear and occasional fancy item. It really doesn't need the standard guns on it.
The Black Market has a place where it contains things that appear on no House Lists at all - its all contraband so it still works. Effectively in a HWL only system the Black Market is the new Trading Post.
I also wouldn't be surprised to see the campaigns divorced from the main rule books too. That way they can sell us campaign environment expansions, such as Ash Wastes, The Skull etc, each of which comes with its own campaign suited to that environment (and possibly a Trading Post with items tailored to it too).
We've already had three campaigns in the system already and it seems to me the Dark Uprising themed one is the taster to see if these environment expansions have legs.
So what would like to see from Future-munda releases?
An open system much like ORB and NCE where all weapons are centralised and anyone can dip in and customise to their hearts delight?
A system that each House has its own weapons supplier only. You shop there for your goods, which allows pricing restructuring to account for the theming of each house but still gives you flexibility to assign weapons how you like to fighters.
A system that you buy a fighter and it comes pre-rolled with weapons and armour to fit a designated role but you have the option to upgrade certain weapons, armour and gear for X creds.
I think I know which one's you'll pick and I also suspect the one you don't is the one they're going for, after all it started like that back in 2017!
What do you think about detached campaigns linked to environments and not the rulebook?
*there was no rule. Just an advisory from some Facebook group.
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