N18 Opinions on bringing back old-school combat

Kiro The Avenger

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Apr 4, 2018
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Fighter (7-3+) so WS 4, plus die 2, +1 charging, -1 fumble equals 6.

Juve (7-5+) so WS 2, plus die 2, -1 fumble equals 3.
In the Juve Vs flail example, the Juve rolled 4, getting a 6 on the dice.

I can appreciate the desire for such a system, but ultimately I disagree with others.
As mentioned, melee is a high risk/high reward strategy. Due to random rolls, premeasuring doesn't really change that -but this almost universally reduces the possible effects.


CGC becomes all but untouchable in melee, especially since you have to make a willpower check to even target them in the first place.

I like the simple solution of opposed rolls, but in the same vein as toughness.
So WS 2+ would hit WS3+ on 3s, and 4+ on 2s.
You could do the 7-WS thing as well.
 

Vonvilkee

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Jan 7, 2018
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In the Juve Vs flail example, the Juve rolled 4, getting a 6 on the dice.

I can appreciate the desire for such a system, but ultimately I disagree with others.
As mentioned, melee is a high risk/high reward strategy. Due to random rolls, premeasuring doesn't really change that -but this almost universally reduces the possible effects.


CGC becomes all but untouchable in melee, especially since you have to make a willpower check to even target them in the first place.

I like the simple solution of opposed rolls, but in the same vein as toughness.
So WS 2+ would hit WS3+ on 3s, and 4+ on 2s.
You could do the 7-WS thing as well.
Cult is very close to untouchable in the beginning but their charge range does that any way.

In "talking" this out I remembered a tag along rule in the original and that was serious injuries were just straight outta action. I feel that is bad for the game right now but what about allowing rerolled serious injury when a fighter is already seriously injured and or being able to count it as flesh wounds? Fighters really geared with high damage melee could still OOA more easily from the hits allowing for more consolidation moves.

Also remember there would be no retaliation strikes as you had your chance to hit in the duel so it would require actions on their part to keep the duel going. Simultaneous engagement in combat is something I'm going for too...

Does this strike you as reducing the risk of combat?

I am starting to come around to the idea of opposed rolls but I still have the nostalgia for the dueling dice of the nineties. The whole reason I own all the necromunda isn't because it is a good or balanced game it is that transportation back to my parents basement when I was still in highschool and could just play games...(and endlessly research and double check rules lol)
 

Jacob Dryearth

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Sep 6, 2016
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To be fair I just skimmed this topic, so maybe this has already been addressed... but if you revert N18 back to opposed combat rolls, don't most of the weapon traits and melee skills no longer have any effects?

Knockback is no longer a good way to avoid reaction attacks. Versatile... how would that even work with opposed rolls? Disarm has no effect because reaction attacks aren't a thing anymore. How do you differentiate wounding hits for things such as Rending, Pulverize, and Power?

Crushing Blow, Rain of Blows, Counter Attack, And Killing Blow are all skills that need to be completely rewritten as they either rely on the existence of Reaction Attacks, or specific attack dice being attributed to them.

I think this proposal changes too much to be compatible with the current Necromunda without a total re-balance of most weapons traits and melee skills..
 

Vonvilkee

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Jan 7, 2018
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To be fair I just skimmed this topic, so maybe this has already been addressed... but if you revert N18 back to opposed combat rolls, don't most of the weapon traits and melee skills no longer have any effects?

Knockback is no longer a good way to avoid reaction attacks. Versatile... how would that even work with opposed rolls? Disarm has no effect because reaction attacks aren't a thing anymore. How do you differentiate wounding hits for things such as Rending, Pulverize, and Power?

Crushing Blow, Rain of Blows, Counter Attack, And Killing Blow are all skills that need to be completely rewritten as they either rely on the existence of Reaction Attacks, or specific attack dice being attributed to them.

I think this proposal changes too much to be compatible with the current Necromunda without a total re-balance of most weapons traits and melee skills..
You are correct with effectively 3rd edition to what 7th Ed 40k style contested rolls tracking weapons become difficult. I'm proposing using the 2nd edition 40k dueling style dice you roll attacks then find out how many hits you got and roll to wound based on attributing the hits evenly (similar to how the attacks are now). Knock back would still be handy for moving around a bit and getting extra damage while most of the other on sixes to hit things would just add modifiers to increase the combat score and there by roll more to wounds. Shock is the only thing that gets a little muddy but it will prolly just be for each six in the combat roll a hit assigned to a shock weapon wounds automatically. Basically the same!

The dueling actually cuts down on reaction attacks as only one fighter (barring ties) would get hits. Then later the loser could use an action to initiate another round, hopefully with some friends helping... Gives more of a reason for rain of blows in my mind and counter attack really as getting in close outside of turn could swing a combat.
 

AJ Tw

New Member
Mar 1, 2019
4
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Saint Albans City, VT, USA
Knockback is no longer a good way to avoid reaction attacks. Versatile... how would that even work with opposed rolls? Disarm has no effect because reaction attacks aren't a thing anymore. How do you differentiate wounding hits for things such as Rending, Pulverize, and Power?

Crushing Blow, Rain of Blows, Counter Attack, And Killing Blow are all skills that need to be completely rewritten as they either rely on the existence of Reaction Attacks, or specific attack dice being attributed to them.
Changes:
  • Knockback: for each die in the to Hit roll that exceeds the target's Strength subtract 1 from their Combat Score. Once the to Hit is resolved push them back 1", if they cannot move the inch gain +1 Damage to the attacks.
  • Versatile: make WS attacks as if it were BS when outside base-to-base
  • Disarm: subtract 1 from your opponent's combat score for each 6 you roll
  • Counter Attack: add one to your Combat Score for every 1 in your Opponent's roll
  • Crushing Blow, option 1: designate one of the Attack dice, if that die's Combat Score exceeds the opponent's it procs
  • Crushing Blow, option 2: procs on a 6 To Hit, then one of the Wound rolls is made with the higher Strength and Damage
  • Power hits would proc on 6's on the Hit dice, just like current, carry over the number of 6's you get. (e.g. you get 3 6's, 3 of your To Wound rolls (if you make any) count as Power hits)
Unaffected:
  • Rending is on the Wound roll
  • Pulverize is on Injury rolls
  • Rain of Blows makes Combat a Simple Action instead of Basic
  • I'm not sure what Killing Blow is, but I don't have House of Chains so maybe it's in the Muscle skill set?
Most of it draws pretty straight lines between the two systems, or is easy to adapt in a way that makes sense.
 
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