N18 Optional Rapid Fire Rules

HugeSamples

Gang Champion
Aug 28, 2022
313
320
73
I've been experimenting with the optional rapid fire rules, and while it's fun to roll a handful of dice I feel like it makes rapid fire weapons really strong (especially in close combat).

Unreliable Weapons​

When making a hit roll with a ranged weapon only roll the firepower dice if the weapon has the rapid fire trait.

When rolling the firepower dice the ammo symbol is ignored.

Instead, if a natural 6 is rolled when making a hit with a ranged weapon, an ammo check must be taken immediately.

If firing a weapon that doesn't need a hit roll--e.g. template weapons--then after resolving the weapon's attack roll a d6. On a 6 an ammo test must be taken immediately.

Hail of Bullets​

When making a hit roll for a weapon that has the rapid fire trait, the player can choose to fire a single shot or sustained fire.

  • If they choose a single shot, fire the weapon as normal, but do not roll the firepower dice; the weapon will only fire once.
  • If they choose sustained fire, roll firepower dice equal to the rapid fire trait of the weapon. Each bullet hole represents a separate shot, and a hit roll should be made for each. If 2 or more ammo checks are failed during sustained fire, then the gun has jammed and cannot be used for the rest of the battle.
  • Shots can be distributed as described in the rules for distributing hits with rapid fire weapons--in this case making a hit roll for each individually, working out modifiers for each target. Note: this means shots can be distributed to models in differing levels of cover.

I'm wondering if other people have used them and what their experience was.
 
That's slightly more reliable than in N'95 rules, where a roll of 6 to hit AND a jam symbol on the sustained fire dice would each cause an ammo check. Otherwise, though, that's a system with around thirty years worth of playtesting.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TopsyKretts
My main gripe is how strong it is in close combat, getting and extra 1-3 attacks from a rapid fire sidearm that uses weapon skill is really brutal.

IIRC N'95 didn't have rapid fire sidearms/pistols, as well as rapid fire being quite rare?

That said maybe adding the ammo symbol to to the ammo checks (like the old jam system), as well as having that dice roll contribute zero shots rather than a min 1 will make it feel less oppressive?
 
Close combat isn't shooting - though the rule Hail of Bullets as written above doesn't specify, but only says "hit roll." That said, the description of the steps of the rule is entirely Shooting attacks, not melee attacks. Nor is there anything in that rule as written that supersedes "sidearms only add one attack." So regardless what you roll on the sustained fire dice for the sidearm in melee, it would still add one attack (Sidearm trait).

There is definitely some question about whether a melee hit roll of 6 would trigger Unreliable Weapon in a sidearm, since that IS a ranged weapon, but my suspicion is that intent would be "no," just as it would not be intended to trigger for a Versatile melee weapon (which also has a range).
 
wouldn't you lose the extra wound rolls from the firepower dice in close combat then. i.e. this make an auto pistol worse than a stubgun in close combat? or is what you're saying is that close combat rapid fire attacks revert back the the normal system?
 
In N’95, sustained fire / rapid fire did not affect the number of melee attacks. It only applied to shooting.

As written above, as you quoted, Hail of Bullets does not appear to occur during close combat. Rapid Fire has no effect there in melee. It does not generate any additional attack dice.

A stub gun and an autopistol are exactly the same in melee there. One attack, for a possible strength 3 hit, with a chance of forcing an ammo check if you roll a 6 (which is also likely a hit).
 
How do the statistics pan out if you apply, say, a - 1 to Hit when Hail Offing Bullets? (I'd even consider a generic - 1 for RF, but with the allowance to hit harder-to-hit targets... You just start with the easiest to hit and proceed progressively harder.)

As matters stand, I'd always taken RF to apply in melee too - doesn't it?

Like Scattershot: one extra attack, but with the potential to do extra hits.

I don't think empowering RF pistols would be too bad this way - though I feel the -1 to hit when multi-shotting is probably best?

(Though that might prompt too much fire discipline, which is not a very "So anyway, I started blasting" vibe for necromunda to lean to. Maybe a - 1 on the second shot, - 2 on the third, might work. Fiddly to keep track of though. Giving the weapons a straight # of attacks, modern WH-style, does seem abundantly simpler. If we're fiddling, so RF1 let's you pick 1-3 attacks, so 1 w/no mod, ×2 at - 1, ×3 at - 2??)
 
As matters stand, I'd always taken RF to apply in melee too - doesn't it?
In the base rules of N17-N23, yes. If the sidearm attack hits, it also gets rapid fire.

In N'95-N'03, no. Nor if one uses the "Hail of Bullets and Unreliable Weapons" campaign rules, which are designed to better emulate N95.
 
I'm starting to lean towards these optional rules being more trouble than they are worth.

I was def trying to get that N95 feel into the modern game, but I think it throws what little balance there is to be had in necromunda out the window. Things like overwatch get nutty strong with these rapid fire rules.
 
Overwatch gets no stronger under Hail of Bullets than under N17-N23 rules.

N23, overwatch makes one roll to hit. If hit, ALL the rapid fire shots hit.

N95 or HoB, overwatch rolls the rapid fire dice. Gets that many shots, each of which rolls to hit, any that are sixes also causing an ammo check. That is more likely to force an ammo check, and more likely to have some but not all shots hit.

Not suggesting you need to / ought to / should use those rules. But they don’t make melee more powerful, and they don’t make overwatch more powerful.
 
Overwatch gets no stronger under Hail of Bullets than under N17-N23 rules.
It gets much stronger, more dice to roll for hits equals more chances to pin and cancel the target's activation.

i.e. rather than one chance to pin and cancel the activation you now have 1-3 (or 2-6 if you have a rapid fire 2 weapon) chances depending how good you roll. You might be out of ammo afterwards, but you still did what you needed to do with better odds.
 
For funsies here is the results of a lot of math for the different probabilities for an auto pistol to cause at least one wound against a T3 target for: Hail of Bullets (multi shot), GW base rules, and Hail of Bullets (single shot).

BS/WS ->2+3+4+5+6
HoB(multi)56.2%46.9%36.7%23.7%13.3%
GW53.8%43.1%32.3%21.5%10.8%
HoB(single)41.7%33.3%25.0%16.7%8.3%
 
I believe the discourse around this sort of strength comes down to "swinginess". It raises the likely floor of possible outcomes.

Which is very valuable.
 
I like the Hail of Bullets and Unreliable Weapon rules. They are quite fun. However, I am worried about the power spikes they cause and the edge cases they bring up (as many rules were not designed with them in mind).