Orks in da 'Ive 2nd attempt (Yakromunda community rules effort)

[Gorkamunda]

The rules are now finalised, but suggestions to tweaks, clarifications, correction of spelling mistakes etc. is highly welcomed.

Well why don't we thrash some ideas out here - see what the community can put together?

5pointer

This thread's aim is to make something useful from the 5th draft of the rules from the original thread. The owner of that thread has not logged in for nearly a year, and so I thought it appropriate to start a new one, where we once again can use votes to determine different issues (in the spirit of making community based rules). With its 14 pages of discussion, it also got a bit overwhelming.

This opening post will be updated with the most current version of the ruleset, as well as a "living" to-do list.

Rules updated March 13th 2014.

Download here.

To-do list:

* Change blunderbuss cost to 10.
* Change Frag Grenade cost to 25.
* Change Krak Grenade cost to 40.
* Add unparriable/nullify and/or Might Blow to Choppa and re-price it.
* Add paragraph to Ork Fungus Patch which allows you to choose any result less than your 2D6 roll.
* Add paragraph about Squigs being lost in the event of it being captured?
* Add paragraph about what happens if a Gretchin and an Ork is captured?
* Gretchin + armour?
* Custom Blasta multiwound at S8/S10?

 

[Gorkamunda]

Re: Orks in da 'Ive 2nd attempt

I will convert this into a word document later today, as well as sketch out a preliminary to-do list.

 

[spikeyone]

Re: Orks in da 'Ive 2nd attempt

Nice one.

In general I like the rules we have, though they need polishing.

So, my initial suggestions based on 3 games using all options (Nob, Mek, Runtherd, Weird, boyz and grotz) are...

The Nob needs flashy weapons. I have given mine the Kustom Blasta, he is yet to hit anything with more than S2 and it's blown up in his face too, but I much prefer that to giving him something boring.

The Weirdboy is terrible. I'm all for my Orks killing themselves and generally being useless at times but that below average Ld and poor I are too much. The rules don't actually state a price so I went with the same as a normal Wyrd, so maybe a drastic price drop or my personal preference, making them part of the gang, is in order. What else would a Weirdboy do, other than join the gang? He'd quickly be killed if wandered alone waiting to be hired, and what would he do with his fee? Much better to make him a gang member with powers that he learns to harness over time also giving him the ability to add skills and help the gang in other ways.

The Runtherd is brutal when used right. Sheild him with grotz and bundle anyone they get close to, using the Nobs 'Waaaagh' ability and multiple combat bonus to bring them down and capture them. Ok so you might lose a grot or two but that's what they're for, right?

I like the idea of being able to upgrade 'Shootas' and 'Sluggas' to sustained fire with a roll on the mekboy Bodge chart. Giving the weapon 1d sustained fire and an ammo roll of 5 or maybe 6. The old ork ethos of "More Dakka!".

Mek needs more weapon options. No plasma/las/melta but a rokkit launcher (just frag, maybe make others available through Bodge skill) and maybe autokannon?

Thoughts?






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ardavion]

Re: Orks in da 'Ive 2nd attempt

The Weirdboy is terrible. I'm all for my Orks killing themselves and generally being useless at times but that below average Ld and poor I are too much. The rules don't actually state a price so I went with the same as a normal Wyrd, so maybe a drastic price drop or my personal preference, making them part of the gang, is in order. What else would a Weirdboy do, other than join the gang? He'd quickly be killed if wandered alone waiting to be hired, and what would he do with his fee? Much better to make him a gang member with powers that he learns to harness over time also giving him the ability to add skills and help the gang in other ways.

My original idea when discussing the Wierdboy was to remove the traditional psychic power calculations: replace it with a mechanic relating to the amount of greenskins in the area around the Wierdboy powering his attacks - and instead of perils of the warp, taking a wound related to the level of power he was trying to use/channel.
This brings it in line with 40k 2nd ed and Gorkamorka's implementation of Orky psychic powers, seems orkier and helps with the statline issues you mentioned. Would that help balance the Wierdboy?

I also had an idea of being the same cost as normal wyrds, plus 5/10 credits given the above modifications.

The Runtherd is brutal when used right. Sheild him with grotz and bundle anyone they get close to, using the Nobs 'Waaaagh' ability and multiple combat bonus to bring them down and capture them. Ok so you might lose a grot or two but that's what they're for, right?

I'm glad that there's a drive for something other than mekboyz being found in the playtest; the original discussion didn't think much of having multiple oddboyz, so its good they're actually being proven to be decent additions.

I like the idea of being able to upgrade 'Shootas' and 'Sluggas' to sustained fire with a roll on the mekboy Bodge chart. Giving the weapon 1d sustained fire and an ammo roll of 5 or maybe 6. The old ork ethos of "More Dakka!".

As did I although I was a little more adventurous in having lots of different mods which kept reducing the ammo roll until it went to "auto".

 

[Gorkamunda]

Re: Orks in da 'Ive 2nd attempt

Rules updated (.pdf) in original post.

Changelog:

• Removed skills Well 'Ard, Good Right Arm and 'Ard As Nails, as they are duplicates of existing Necromunda skills
• Added skill Improvvazashun!

To-do list added in original post.

 

[Gorkamunda]

Re: Orks in da 'Ive 2nd attempt

Make two new skills for Ork skill table

I am a little blank on this one, but I'm just tossing one out:
Bad Mudda
This Ork has seen it all. He is immune to the effects of fear and terror.

Discuss revision of Weirdboy (Hired gun or gang member? Cost/hiring cost? Making him more in line with a Wyrd?)

I don't know how I feel about making him part of the gang, but I trust you when you say that your playtesting experiences shows that he comes up short. Could you (Ardavion) make a rough sketch of what you are proposing?

Revise cost Buzzer Squig Bomm

I'll leave this to the points lawyers.

Discuss revision of oddboy recruitment number (Runtherd 0-1, Mekboy 0-2, maximum oddboys in mob = 2?)

I could go for this. It would mean that the mob gains flexibility, and may make it more fun to play.

Discuss giving Nob access to Mek Weapons (or just custom blasta/other flashy wepunz)

I feel that a kustom blasta could be appropriate, but not the entire mekboy stash. What other weapons could fit an underhive Nob?

Discuss adding more Mek weapons (Heavy Bolter, Autocannon, Missile Launcher?)

I feel (again with the feeling!?) that the dakka weapons (heavy bolter/autocannon) fits a Mek better than a missile launcher (although it goes ka-boom like nobodys bizniz).

Discuss adding a "More Dakka" result to the Mekboy Bodge Chart

I'm positive. How should/could we alter the bodge table to make room for this? Could this instead be on the Ork skill table?

 

[Ardavion]

Re: Orks in da 'Ive 2nd attempt

Discuss revision of Weirdboy (Hired gun or gang member? Cost/hiring cost? Making him more in line with a Wyrd?)

I don't know how I feel about making him part of the gang, but I trust you when you say that your playtesting experiences shows that he comes up short. Could you (Ardavion) make a rough sketch of what you are proposing?

As a starter, since I'm too lazy to check the previous topic for my previous thoughts, abridged rules from Gorkamorka's Nazgrub Wurrzag:

Roll a D6, deduct the number of Orks and the number of close combats within 6". Scores less than 0 allow for a power to go off. An Ld test allows for control of the power (in the original rules, this meant targeting a power bolt instead of its direction being determined by scatter dice).

My addition to these rules would be if the Ld test is failed, the Wierdboy gets hit with a hit with strength equal to the number below 0 (i.e. roll 2, 3 greenskins in one close combat leads to 2-3-1=-2, therefore S2 hit).

This would be a lot kinder than "he dead, or he crazy, or he done" that is in traditional wyrds, but still gives a downside; if you're getting a big modifier to definitely do a power, you run the risk of a high strength backfire. This again fits with the 2nd ed version of wierdboyz, who typically liked living away from orks because it made their heads hurt, and would take some coercion to take to the field of battle; they had bodyguards/minders that made sure they didn't run off.

 

[Gorkamunda]

Nazgrub attached for reference.

I think that's an interesting idea. Nazgrub's LD is 7, Weirdboy is in latest rendition only 6. The risks for using the powers are less than before, though. I think we should leave it up for a while so that people can comment on it.

Do you have any comments for the other bullet points, ardavion?

 

[Ardavion]

Beta to-do list:

• Make two new skills for Ork skill table

I'm not really thinking of anything; I usually get my inspiration from other sources, and I've not read anything recently. Give me a few days, I might get inspired.

• Discuss revision of Weirdboy (Hired gun or gang member? Cost/hiring cost? Making him more in line with a Wyrd?)

I'd make him a hired gun, hire cost 20/25/30 credits, not sure on cost exactly but that would be my ballpark.

• Revise cost Buzzer Squig Bomm

My original idea was 40/45/50 for a supply; is this not a decent ballpark? I'd have to review the rules that were picked, though, as it obviously affects the optimal pricing.

• Discuss revision of oddboy recruitment number (Runtherd 0-1, Mekboy 0-2, maximum oddboys in mob = 2?)

I'm happy for something like this.

• Discuss giving Nob access to Mek Weapons (or just custom blasta/other flashy wepunz)

The mek weapons are literally a mekboy's experimental guns; they typically don't let anyone else have them. I'm willing to get more special weapons for the Nobs, but the freaky custom stuff should be limited to the Meks.

• Discuss adding more Mek weapons (Heavy Bolter, Autocannon, Missile Launcher?)

Again, I'm willing to think about things like this, I just don't have a full opinion - I'd probably allow the suggestions, but there'd be a limit to just how many can go in.

• Discuss adding a "More Dakka" result to the Mekboy Bodge Chart

I'm just going to repeat my original proposal, of having different weapon mods reduce the ammo roll I'd have to reacquaint myself with the "Mekboy Bodge chart" to give a proper opinion.

 

[Blood Donor]

Gotta give you credit on keepin' up with this one Gork'... +1

 

[Gorkamunda]

Thanks, Blood Donor. Feel free to toss in your two cents!

Came up with a suitably orky skill while attempting to sleep last night. Comments are very much welcomed:

Kamikaze!
The Ork has perfected the art of plunging head first into the opponent, in an attempt to knock him down. This skill may be used when charging, and gives the charging model the option to inflict one (1) automatic hit to his opponent, at user strenght. If he is not able to put his opponent Out of Action, he will fight the following hand-to-hand combat with one less attack dice than he would usually have, and his weapon skill is halved (rounding up). This will last for the remainder of the hand-to-hand combat phase (including fights with multiple combatants).

 

[Gorkamunda]

Made a simple test gang that I think I will run at first opportunity (we just have to close up our current zombie campaign first). Will probably be able to play test it in a couple of weeks or so. Considering dropping one grot to afford hiring a Weirdboy and purchasing backup weapon for Nob.

 

[Blood Donor]

I like the work so far, is there any chances for weapons that would reflect what would come in a standard box of 40K Boyz? Mek's could (and I know they'd less likely take) the Rokkit Launcher, Nobs have the Power Claw, etc...

Not much use of Shootas in your gang. Do they need adjustment to make them a viable pick? Because I'd imagine amoung Ork bits they are the easiest to get.

 

[Gorkamunda]

No-no, shootas are just another name for the regular ol' autogun. I'm trying out keeping my boyz CC oriented (therefor only pistols), while my grotz hang back and put down covering fire (like the sneaky gitz they are). Then - when I'm close, I will Waaaagh! the shit out of my opponents!

Sure, adding stuff so it will fit with models that are out there is cool, and a rokkit launcha is suggested, but isn't a power claw a bit much in a starting roster?

 

[LuckGod]

I havent read through the whole thing yet (I will do though) but I would suggest a more current edition stat line for the orks, WS3 and BS3 is a 'umie thing. Orks should be 4 and 2 I think. also Ld 6 is too low, 7 is more in line.
If you compare them to a ganger they cost 15 creds more and have +1 toughness -1 Initiative and -1 Ld Thats not a great deal.
Maybe give them WS4 BS2 S3 T4 W1 I2 A1 LD7 ??

*Carries on reading

 

[Gorkamunda]

Cheers for the comments, Luckgod! Yeah, that was one of the points that sparked the most debate in the old thread, but if I recall correctly there was a majority (albeit perhaps a small one) that wanted to use the 2nd ed statline, keeping it in spirit with the looney mayhem of late 90s orkdom. There are of course problems that arise from doing so. What would your suggestions be if you were to tweak it within the 2nd ed statline?

Also - do you have any comments on the to-do list in the original post? If you see any griveous errors and typos - please report them. Thanks again!

 

[LuckGod]

Maybe look to ratskins with regards to the weirdboy, the combat power he has is a bit of a waste with WS2 though.

The squigs could be made more fun, maybe they could be pets? Maybe the meks one gives him a +1 to ammo rolls if in b2b?
The Nasher from the attack pets rules is a good base for an attacking one

Maybe limit Meks to 1 you might not want them going to shooty.
They are using credits, does this mean they would get the giant killer money or money from scenarios as normal gangs?

 

[obar]

Ok, some thoughts about this:
Attack Squig: it is not entirely clear how this works. Is the attack added after the ork has won combat or does it work even if he lost or the combat ended in a draw? I think most would read it as the first alternative, but some clarification could be good.

Last sentence of the flesh eater squig: "add" should be "added"

Making them separate models could also work. Might even be more fitting in a skirmish game like this...?

Also regarding the 2nd/3rd ed statline: Even though the orks initially have the same weapon- and ballistic skill they will not advance those stats at the same rate as other gangs. Their advance roll table is slightly different, favoring strength and attacks over WS/BS. Also in the game of the range and cover modifier that is necromunda, a base BS of 3 is quite needed to hit anything at all.

Here is a random thought: could the kick from the man stopper shells be to much for grots? Ork only item?

 

[Gorkamunda]

A lot of great input here! It's getting a bit late in th evening, but I will try to sum up some possible rule changes tomorrow, with special focus on the different options we have for the weirdboy.. I really like the idea of the attack squig being a pet - would make it much easier to use as well, in that you wouldn't have to re-model your minis to use it. Three things to ponder on:

Was the new skill I made (kamikaze) any good? I know it isn't exactly superbly worded (and that bit about multiple combat should be removed), so if anyone better versed in the english language would like to re-word it - please do so!

And should one or more of the following options be added to the mek weapons: rokkit launcher, heavy bolter, autocannon. I'm partial to the rokkit launcher, seeing as it is available from the current 40k ork boyz box.

What could be added to the nob's arsenal (if anything?)

 

[obar]

How about:
Mek weapons: Flamer, autoslugger
Mekkier weapons: Heavy stubber, Kustom blasta, rokkit launch and autocannon.
The boss has access to the mek weapons as well. This opens up for a total of two specal weapons or one special and one heavy. Just a thought of course.

I think Kamikaze sounded fun. nice combination with the boss' waaagh rule. Makes the ork a green mean projectile