N18 Outcast Gang Power Level

MysticWolf

Ganger
Nov 15, 2020
72
64
23
Just curious what everyone'a opinion on the power level of outcast gangs are?

It seems like there might be a couple strong options, such as Hagar Freelord for a leader who allows you to equip any ganger with TP up to rarity 8.

Overall, it seems to me that playing outcasts might be like playing Necromunda on hard mode, specifically due to the lack of good weapon options for the regular Hive Scum. Most of the time you'll have one great fighter, your leader, or a group of 2-4 good fighters, guild delegations or noble houses, but that's really it.

Stoked to hear what everyone thinks!

Peace ane Love!
 

MysticWolf

Ganger
Nov 15, 2020
72
64
23
they don't seem to be setting the world on fire, no.

It's more about how off their stats are though. The champs are just ganger tier, and that's a rough place to be in
For sure. The 3+ WS ties with only 1 attack limits them both for melew and ranged quite a bit.

One thing I dont understand is our limitation on champions too. We can only have one champion per 3 gang fighters, which can work out to quite a few less champions in campaign than the houses that only have to have equal gangfighters to non-gangfighters.

I've been loving the lady credo model, so I recently splurged and ordered her to lead an outcast gang, but I'm worrie about the viability of the gang.

Having said that, I think there is a lot of viability of the gang, but an other issue is the rules are somewhat extremely unclear in places. Making the gangbuilding process unclear or difficult.
 

MysticWolf

Ganger
Nov 15, 2020
72
64
23
I think the way to make the gang viable is to use probably a delegation or make your leader a wierd model like an ambul or something.
Yeah, which seems a little janky.

To me, an obvious choice is Kal Jericho as a leader with a 100 cred scabs. Its a mean combination.

I'm not 100% sold on most of the delegations, slave delegation seems great for melee, and House Ran-Lo with the web pistol, maybe a couple others.

But like, take House Greim for instance... it's unclear whether a greim delegation gets the Greim special ammocheck rule, which would make the house worth it. Otherwise you get meh 4ws 4bs bolt pistol power sword leader w/ overseer and a marginally better than normal ganger with combat shotty.

And it seems like most delegations kind of run meh like this. Take the mercator nauticus. The champ and lead have 1 wound each and the ganger has 3 wounds. There are obviously protections with bodyguard for your leader, but realistically, every game you're one wound from having your delegation champ and your 3w ganger peacing out because your leader just died.

Anyway, I digress lol. I just love the conversation!
 

MusingWarboss

Hive Guilder
Oct 31, 2013
2,933
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Overall, it seems to me that playing outcasts might be like playing Necromunda on hard mode, specifically due to the lack of good weapon options for the regular Hive Scum. Most of the time you'll have one great fighter, your leader, or a group of 2-4 good fighters,
That sounds more like playing Necromunda in “classic” mode.
It’s been stated many times that new Necromunda gives access to power levels you wouldn’t see in the 95 game until quite some time in the campaign.

Also you only got 2 Heavies (Champions) Max back then.

So to me, it seems they designed these gangs to be the dregs of the underhive of old rather than the new paramilitary Houses of the current edition.

So the fun here might be in the challenge of levelling them up over the course of the campaign. They’ve also adopted the Herohammer approach of using a big name to do the heavy lifting.
 

julezwr

Juve
Yak Comp 3rd Place
Nov 9, 2020
46
144
93
Nelson, New Zealand
Say I have a Outcasts Leader and I want to give him a gold plated, master crafter weapon... How would that be possible when both the gold plated and master crafted upgrades have a rarity of 11 and Outcasts Leaders are limited to weapons/wargear with a rarity of 9 or less?
 

MysticWolf

Ganger
Nov 15, 2020
72
64
23
Say I have a Outcasts Leader and I want to give him a gold plated, master crafter weapon... How would that be possible when both the gold plated and master crafted upgrades have a rarity of 11 and Outcasts Leaders are limited to weapons/wargear with a rarity of 9 or less?
You would have to rarity roll to buy it after your first battle, unfortunately.
 
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That sounds more like playing Necromunda in “classic” mode.
It’s been stated many times that new Necromunda gives access to power levels you wouldn’t see in the 95 game until quite some time in the campaign.

Also you only got 2 Heavies (Champions) Max back then.

So to me, it seems they designed these gangs to be the dregs of the underhive of old rather than the new paramilitary Houses of the current edition.

So the fun here might be in the challenge of levelling them up over the course of the campaign. They’ve also adopted the Herohammer approach of using a big name to do the heavy lifting.
What a great idea! So good, in fact, that I've already started talking to some friends about doing an Outcast-only campaign.
Houseruling, I am sure that for the leader you can only choose the most normal profiles, those of M5 and M6.
And psychic abilities would be out.
Any more ideas?
 
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BearsWillEatYou

Gang Champion
Apr 10, 2018
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Can Outcasts Gangs become Chaos Corrupted?

That's an interesting question.
RAW is that only House gangs can be corrupted, but a House affiliate Outcast gang counts as that House for all campaign purposes. So... possibly yes with a House affiliation? Hard to say if that's intended though.

If it comes down to arbitrator or group approval I guess it'll often come down to motivations: is the hypothetical player looking for an interesting alternative to the sometimes lacking Helot Cult list, to do something interesting with a narrative, or just to give stat boosts to an already powerful elevated leader profile? Would be a shame to disallow the first two.
 

Jacob Dryearth

Gang Hero
Sep 6, 2016
1,251
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I would love to play an Outcasts only campaign!

Somebody asked about Water Guild Outcasts on Reddit, so I'll just copy and paste my response as it is mostly related to rules inconsistencies. Understanding how these rules work is important in assessment of their strengths and weaknesses.

Delegation rules are a mess, so here is my understanding of them...

The Delegation is taken as is, skills and all, they do not get to pick additional skills, as those are rules for the Outcast Leader and Outcast Champion profiles. Also note that the Subnautican is a Ganger who gets a skill as well. If you were to hire a 2nd champion from the Outcast list you'd pick their skill as normal. Do note that the Water Guild rules restricting Overseer and multiple activations to the Water Guild models don't negatively affect you, as even the Outcast fighters hired will count as part of the Water Guild Delegation per page 22.

You do not use the Elevating a Fighter rules on page 27 for Delegations with more than a single model, so you do not have the option to ignore their skills and equipment, but the Delegation rules state they still get an Archetype.

When you give the Leader and Champion an Archetype they may end up with skill sets not including their built in skills, this is OK! Note that per Affiliation rules on page 20, all your fighters gain access to any equipment used by any member of the delegation. This mean your Hive Scum Gangers can use needle rifles, pistols etc.

There is no mention one way or the other if the delegation special rules (Water Harvest, A Band Apart, and "Here to Help") are to be used or not, but A Band Apart and "Here to Help" do not apply as they are for use when included as an Alliance, and Water Harvest is bad for campaigns as nobody can attempt Rescue Missions against you. I'd lean towards not using the three above rules.

The Subnautican cannot be re-created because their is no "open fists" weapon to purchase, but I would allow delegations to replace these unique fighters for their base cost if killed (this is a house rule). You could give the Subnautican items from the Outcast ganger equipment list, but not the trading post unless they become a Specialist. Demolition charges, and a flail seem like good choices, and a grenade launcher or webgun for a Specialist. It's a shame that the harpoon launcher is a heavy weapon so Outcast Specialists can't use them (unless they eventually become Champions)

Some frustrating side notes: Rules as written you cannot use a Fallen Noble or Master Charlatan as a Leader, as they have no cost, and so cannot be used with the Elevating a Fighter rule as the delegation rules on page 22 instruct you to do. Also, Hangers-on are under-costed when using the Elevating a Fighter rules, because they are usually not part of a crew at all times and costed as such. The Ammo Jack, for example, comes with over 100 cr of equipment for only 50 cr. Personally I do not include any equipment for Hangers-on taken as a Leader, their profiles and abilities are well worth their base cost without free equipment (this is a house rule).


Is my interpretation correct in anyone's opinion?
 
I've been looking at the different options and I found the smuggler shore party to be very interesting, literally playing a criminal gang, a kind of dark Rogue Trader.

But speaking of power level, it seemed too OP to me, 75 creds for a Void-born scum (you have 2) with S5 T5 W3, with the great bodyguard rule, it seems too good to me.

I don't know if I would allow it as arbitrator, what do you think?
 
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spafe

Executive Officer in charge of Hats
Staff member
Necromunda Custodian
Yak Comp 2nd Place
Tribe Council
Feb 8, 2013
10,677
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Tilehurst, U.k.
Also, Hangers-on are under-costed when using the Elevating a Fighter rules, because they are usually not part of a crew at all times and costed as such. The Ammo Jack, for example, comes with over 100 cr of equipment for only 50 cr. Personally I do not include any equipment for Hangers-on taken as a Leader, their profiles and abilities are well worth their base cost without free equipment (this is a house rule).
I was thinking about this the other day, and have come the the conclusion that they arn't particularly broken at all. The reason they 'could' be considered broken would be their cost v their stats/what they bring to the gang. And that is how you have judged them. BUT! they have a cost of opportunity that you have not valued. Namely, the leader is the 'only' good fighter in your gang. So while you can take some uber efficient munchkin, such as the ammo jack for 50 creds. Great, he is crazy good for his personal efficency. But what do you have with the other 950 creds? a load (and I mean a LOAD) of average to poor mooks, and your gang has no way to bring in hordes, like cawdor. So your overal gang is lacklustre. Whereas if you even took a 'standard' leader profile from the outcast leader set and armed him with a boltgun, gave him some suitable skills, yeah, he'd cost more than an ammo jack, but would be better.

And thats before you get into the elevating actual good fancy characters or playing with the guild parties etc.

Basically I'm not convinced that giving up your leader slot for a uber efficient hanger on is actually going to make the gang good, because you very much need your leader to do the heavy lifting, not just be efficient.
 

Tiktaalik

Ganger
Aug 30, 2021
85
329
58
How do the outcasts stack up against the Venator/bounty hunter gang? I sort of balked when I saw the M4, but the psychology stats are better across the board with the Venator guys. Does having access to more+rarer weapons and equipment at the start really make a difference in a campaign?