Outlanders Community Edition (OCE)

Shadowbadger

Gang Hero
Sep 22, 2014
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I have been really impressed with Spyrer rules so far, having only seen this edition recently. There are a few things which have been reigned in but I think a lot of things are more balanced or less dependent in lucky advance rolls to ever work properly.

Looks like I forgot to add the no-Disarm to the pit slave weapons. Spyrer weapons should probably get that too.

Is this change still going in or was it rejected?

I had queried it in another thread. In short with the suit now conferring most bonuses all bar the Jakara would be immune to disarm anyway unless the whole suit was disarmed (which would be odd), taking all the stat bonuses and other stuff with it, were suits treated as a weapon.

Along with the other changes I think disarm immunity would be fair, especially as Spyrers are more prone to being outnumbered. The Body Slam and Combat Master skills are others I am wondering about. A Body Slam from a charging Juve taking the WS of a maxed Orrus to 1 seems excessive if all his friends can then jump said Orrus. Conversely the version of Combat Master in NCE could make Spyrers very hard to take down, even by 2 or 3 skilled CC fighters.

Yes the two skills would balance each other out if taken, but I would personally rather see both simply being balanced rather than forcing a player to go after certain skills or starting an arms race of certain skills.

I understand this is a broader change but my suggestion for Combat Master would be something along the lines of each opponent having to beat the Combat Master in HTH in order to pass on their usual cumulative outnumbering bonus, otherwise the Combat Master gets a cumulative +1WS instead. Representing the master defeating one opponent then throwing him in front of the next etc. Or, if the master gets beaten the next attacker would get a slight edge.

This would still allow for domination of Juves by the Combat Master, or cheap bodies thrown in before a CC specialist, but would make fights with experienced models more interesting. I am not sure how it would affect normal CC gangs though, I only have experience with Spyrers vs Gang not so much Gang vs Gang. At the moment Combat Master seems like 2 very good skills in 1 (and this is coming from a Spyrer player with ready access to it and stuff to stack with it).

For Body Slam making the skill work for that opponent, not the whole turn may resolve the issue. Yes a guy could body slam but his friends are not going to readily be able to help him jump the slamee without accidentally shooting and/or slicing the slammer. Again it is only really an issue for lopsided combats but as Spyrers you see that all the time.

Overall both the NCE and OCE are great though, just some issues I am seeing for multiple combats when you have small elite gangs/teams.
 

Shadowbadger

Gang Hero
Sep 22, 2014
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One other question I have is regarding the level at which Spyrers should take a bottle roll. I cannot see the rule for them bottling when one model goes down, has this been removed or omitted by mistake?
 

Shadowbadger

Gang Hero
Sep 22, 2014
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Forgot the skill things, another thread I have discussed this on has convinced me that it is probably OK and will work out in the wash. So just questions on:

  1. Spyrer bottle roll number
  2. Disarm immunity (or adjustment) for Pit Slaves and Spyrers.
 

Anthony

Community Edition Editor
Jun 2, 2011
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1. Normal bottle rules apply (this is unchanged from the original spyrer rules which the OCE is based on). Note though spryrers start with Ld6 now which is a change.

2. Yeah in the end I felt it's not really needed and inelegant to specifically mention some weapons not being able to be disarmed. Fluff-wise it's pretty easy to imagine disarming a pit slave weapon could mean them popping out an electric cable or so on. As you said, all spyrers except the Jakara are immune from Disarm by virtue of their weapons already being reflected in their profile. Ideally it would be nice if even spyrers could be disarmed but that wouldn't be a clean solution either.
 

Shadowbadger

Gang Hero
Sep 22, 2014
724
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Thanks for the clarification.

Normal Bottle rules seem reasonable to me, as does the starting Ld6, given the return to "from Juve" skill progression and the Fearsome Reputation skill on all of them.

I think the disarm situation as you have clarified is good for Spyrers, both in terms of mechanic and fluff (with the former obviously being more important).
 

Loriel

Gang Hero
Nov 27, 2013
1,677
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Kangasala, Finland
I admit that I haven't looked this whole thread up and I am sorry if this suggestion has come up allready, but I want to make this suggestion anyhow :p

Could OCE outlaw trading post has one random item called "gang specific list" -> gangs such as pit slaves, redemptionist, spryrers and ratskins would have own specific tables of spefici items for them. I made to OCE pit slave thread suggestion of this allready.
 

spafe

Executive Officer in charge of Hats
Staff member
Necromunda Custodian
Yak Comp 2nd Place
Tribe Council
Feb 8, 2013
10,509
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Tilehurst, U.k.
What would house gangs then roll on if they have been outlawed? suppose it could count as extra archeotech or someting...
 

Loriel

Gang Hero
Nov 27, 2013
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Kangasala, Finland
Well perhaps just some generic table could exist for gangs that doesn't have specific rare item table. or perhaps it could be rerolled in that event. ;)

what if house gangs would have something like that also? perhaps goliaths would have super massive thunder axe, delaque could have some sneaky super hidden blade, eschers would have tampons (sorry, this was little out of line) etc ;)
 

ntw3001

Gang Hero
Feb 17, 2011
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Essex, UK
I think it could work out alright. It's a lot of new stuff to come up with though, and it's probably best if it's mostly fairly uncomplicated items. But you could have things like more exotic scaly weapons, flaming braziers and uh whatever Ratskins like. Ancient totems? Why not.
 

Shadowbadger

Gang Hero
Sep 22, 2014
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To me this looks like a good idea but perhaps not for inclusion in the next release.

The extra items, even if original gangs share a table would add up. Costing and balancing them would take time. I am new here but the NCE/OCE so far look to mostly be tweaks and balancing of existing content, and it is not quite there yet. Drafting some tables, publishing them as optional house rules so that people can try them if they like the look of them, and provide feedback, may be the best approach.

I really like the look of for example the Leader/Heavy skill tables by Rob Reiner and Nick Jakos (albeit overlain/updated with the NCE). They have the same issue though, it is much harder to add a chunk of content than to subtly tweak existing content.

With new items they would need to be very finely balanced. If they are too weak then there is no point, if they are too powerful then all of a sudden the gang with those tables, especially if they have access to a lot of Techno skills, become overpowered. Spyrers do not use trade tables so if it ended up as a bonus for everyone then they would lose out.
 

Loriel

Gang Hero
Nov 27, 2013
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Kangasala, Finland
For me the idea came especially since Pit Slaves seems to lack certain... excitement in trade sequences. There isn't really anything than utility items / needle weapons to be bought from rare items. Most of the equiptment they need are allready available to them (armors and HtH weapons.) I made rough brainstroming post to the pit slave section https://yaktribe.games/community/threads/pitslave-rules-for-oce.2841/#post-43991
 
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Shadowbadger

Gang Hero
Sep 22, 2014
724
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They do not have a points value as such.

You get 5 of them, choose any suit combinations you want.

Your gang rating is then 1000 + Total XP

There are special rules regarding getting new members and retiring old ones, see the part about completing vows as well as choosing your team.
 

trollmeat

Hive Guilder
Yak Comp 2nd Place
Nov 5, 2014
3,284
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I'm going to read the 25 pages of this thread (soon), but figured I should throw this in here while I think of it: Can Scaly Weapons be used by standard Heavies? I assume no, as Scalies are meant to be even bigger/bulkier than even the largest goliath.... Is it specifically stated anywhere?
 
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Jul 27, 2012
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From the OCE page 42:
"Only scavvy gang members can use the following items as no other gang would want to be associated with the much-loathed scavvy hordes."

However, if you happened to capture a Scalie and take his equipment, you can keep it in your stash for future bargaining power. ;)
 
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trollmeat

Hive Guilder
Yak Comp 2nd Place
Nov 5, 2014
3,284
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Thanks, I should probably read OCE while I'm catching up on this thread! ;)