Pinnacle of Zombie Games?

[KRVSH]

It transpired it's fun to create Nekromasse, a present day zombie apocalypse game loosely based on the classic skirmisher Necromunda and taking into account what other zombie games do right. The idea however is to make the same NPC zombie mechanics applicable for Necromunda itself.
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Anyway, here still is my original post that started this thread:

There seem to be hundrets of zombie games out on the market and to be honest, I was never attracted by most of what I found out about regular board games. But what do I know? I'm currently working on two zombie dioramas and frankly, as an old fan of genre movies, I kinda enjoy the theme and I do know my buddy does. As he's still a bit too reserved getting deeper into wargaming, I thought maybe there is a system out there we both could enjoy. So I think I should start looking for something for Christmas that isn't too expensive for a game played mostly by us two players and maybe uses more like a skirmish system, so it's not that huge step into Necromunda after a couple of matches. I would enjoy building us some quick scenery pieces out of foamboard and as I'm urging to get more into flocking, details shouldn't be a problem either, so playing on a custom 3x3 or 4x4 table would be neat. Rules shouldn't be too time consuming as I know he's a lot more into the strategy than the math. For aesthetics I'd prefer fewer excellent miniatures over a mass of plastic globs. I'd like to put them on display if I can manage to paint them well enough. I'd possibly chose miniatures from different manufacturers for that reason to have a variety of figures I really like, or maybe even kitbash some of them. I think I wouldn't argue against some nicely looking girls with guns as well, so if rules allow that, that would be brilliant. It's going to be guys playing, right? And there's gotta be some balance to the blood, guts and gore.

Now I rely on you guys, what should we be getting into? If there's a single set of rules that's be fine for above reasons and of course I've hoarded loads of dice in the past and already do have a bunch of materials to use. Would be good if we can get away with 50 € each for a start.

 

[Azzabat]

Check out this thread on Board Game Geek:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/926187/zombie-miniatures-game

There are some nice Zombie miniatures out there if you search around. I love Zombies!!! and wanted to replace all the plastic Zombies with Building Specific ones (Zombie Police in the Police Station, Zombie Doctors in the Hospital etc) so I've got a collection ranging from Zombie Brides and American Football players to British Policemen and Lawyers, all from different manufacturers. Sadly I can't remember most of them.

I just googled Zombie Miniatures 28mm.

Hope this helps.

 

[Blood Donor]

I would weigh in that the best way to lead into Necromunda with a zombie game would be to use a zombie game that still uses the Strength vs Toughness table. Mastering that is the platform of GW games (or at least those from the 90's). I think it would be relatively easy to come up with some rules based on Necro, and they would be alot easier for a variety of reasons: no pinning would speed things up, as they wont be shooting at you and shots that don't kill zombies thematically do zilch in slowing them. I had discussed a briefly spun up version for zombies here, but essentially if you took the HeroQuest style of picking a handful of your minis that you like (or as you mentioned a range of ones you thought were cool), wrote up some basic profiles for them based on WYSIWYG within the Necro archetype, and considered either no character development or a custom and fairly streamlined advancement table, then you would have a fairly basic system under the same rules family.

 

[KRVSH]

Thanks, mates! That brings me foreward at least a bit.

What's the system you're playing the miniatures with, @Azzabat?

Rule conversion was actually my plan b, @Blood Donor. Browsing around I found out I kinda like Mantic's take on The Walking Dead for the mix between skirmish missions and the walkers reacting to sound etc. just like the rules that apply to this universe. I don't dig playing the WD characters as much though. I reckon you could play two or more "gangs" of survivors, that could also team up or fight each other in multi-player sessions based on a game like Necromunda and lift the walker mechanics quite easily from Mantic's system. I'm just not sure if Necro translates well to a world much closer to our current.

 

[Azzabat]

A board game called Zombies!!!. http://www.twilightcreationsinc.com/en/boardgames/zombies.html

I personally like it as when someone dies, rather than being out of the game, they just lose everything they've acquired so far, and half of their "points", and restart in the center of the board.

We've made a load of House Rules and few little changes which make it more suitable to our style of play.

 

[trollmeat]

@Blood Donor 's approach sounds good. Only thing I'd suggest if using necromunda rules this way would be to group zombie movement together to reduce dice thrown and streamline play.

 

[KRVSH]

What do you think of the Mantic system then? There's an early Walking Dead demo game on the Beasts of War channel:

I like how you attract walkers by your smell and sound. Even if you're running and a walker is close enough, he's gonna attack.

 

[Blood Donor]

...maybe we just need to come up with a free official YakTribe zombie game...


Says the guy who puts way too many projects on his plate.

 

[Unslain]

If non-necro skirmish is what you're looking for then there's Project Z from warlord games; £30 (€40-odd I think?) gets you two living gangs and 23 zombies, plus dice and counters. I've downloaded the free rules pdf (see lower down the link) but have yet to read it so I can't vouch for playability. The models are so lovely though that I'll likely get it at Christmas and just trust Rick Priestley to know what he's doing.

I was going to suggest mantic's deadzone zombie expansion set with the 'AI' card deck that decided how the zombies acted. But they don't appear to have brought it into the 2nd edition.

 

[KRVSH]

Why, I think Project Z is part of Warlord's project to put their product into retail shelves mostly, so they can attract young and new players into miniature gaming and hopefully create interest in what they seem to call tabletop, the games like Bolt Action, Hail Caesar, Black Powder etc... What it essentially looks like is a quick rule system repackaging Wargames Factory miniatures as they've taken over distribution for these. The figures are said to have been improved, but are basically the same as the Apocalypse series.That doesn't have to be bad for the price, but just from the demo games I've seen the project leaves a lot of things unsolved. For example it's seen as an advantage you can choose any weapon you want, but I don't get how this is supposed to be a balanced game rather than quick rules for a set up like playing with toys, probably best to see what happens in a constructed conflict. If that is, what you're after, it's probably a fun game. I'd like to have it a little more structure with campaign potential.

 

[KRVSH]

Let's say we have an urban environment, but also the possibility switching to the countryside, there's going to be demand for vehicles at some point, innit? I'm developing a hunch if there ever is a custom zombie game, it's possibly tailored around existing Necromunda fan rules, as I think these things are covered already, aren't they?

And if all this is, why not include Mantic style zombie rules vice versa in Necromunda as well? That way we all could play our beloved gang without missing out on the fun of having the undead prowling around the hive because playing them as a gang isn't as attractive.

The only reason to still want a zombie game for me actually is the setting. Having a zombie apocalypse in our world of today means differences in terrain and weapons. I can imagine it to require only a few minor tweaks, except for the campaign rules of course, making it double the fun having two almost similar games available and one of them a gateway drug for unrelated players, maybe. And if we can use all the game supplies we have, all we need are miniatures and new terrain for the new game.

What do you think, can we make this a project? I probably can involve my buddy even more with the idea of actually developing and testplaying these rules and if we all pool our ideas and efforts, we could really come up with a fun game sooner or later. Maybe even with some fluff we could work out once it's set and a german translation I could provide. And as a bonus, I think importing the zombie rules back into Necro should be almost a copy/paste. I really start liking this idea.

 

[KRVSH]

Guys, any thoughts on this? @Blood Donor maybe?

What I need mostly right now are suggestions what ruleset adapts best to this environment:

• Basically if there's a working system for vehicles, ramming and damages, running over people/zombies and special rules for ignition etc. that's the stuff I think should be considered. There's probably the opportunity of just hijacking a car to clean up the small space allowing movement or entering the table by car and/or drive around pretty much depending on scenarios. The only rules I know yet are from Gorkamorka.
  
• Then there's the terrain, either open fields with way less cover, woods or regular streets and houses (rivers and lakes possible), so is there anything in the rule family already tailored around these situations? Would it be necessary to change something from Necro or even use different rules for extremely different settings in your oppinion?
• I thought about the possibility of just taking the Necro weapon tables and replacing the weapons with current equipment, so the heaviest weapon will still do the maximum damage. Do you think this will work and is there any realistic table for classifying impact? I've got some basic knowledge, but I remember complaints about the weapon system in Vampire: The Masquerade, so I'm not sure if I can base weapon classes on their tables. I also have my old Shadowrun rulebooks, but I think these weapons are already too far out to use them as a template for current armoury. These are the only extra sources I remember having available.

That I think are the basic questions at the time.

 

[trollmeat]

Zombicide looks interesting...

 

[Blood Donor]

It's blowing my own horn, but I really think the Vehicle Rules I wrote up will be perfect for this. They are whittled down a bit to play faster and easier, so as not to convolute the rest of the game's learning curve. The link is in my signature. It accommodates any sort of build as well, so you won't be pigeon holed with vehicle options.

Cover is not as necessary, but things like high ground become big. Maybe let zombies climb but at a penalty? Like at reduced rate, or a required I test if there are less than 3 (hypothetical number) in base contact with the edge of the higher ground? Maybe make difficult ground extra difficult for zombies, so that running around becomes the evasion tactic. As for extra rules beyond that though, you don't need to protect Heroes/Survivors as much as characters in Necromunda, so it just becomes blocking or leading zombies into a choke point you can escape from.

They should out number heroes, so straight shooting should not always be the solution. Requiring dramatic movement on the board should be the basis of a zombie game. If zombies must pursue the closest target, herding them around becomes the way to play. Would be a lot of fun, creates the risk/reward balance to drive play. So I think keeping zombies relatively easy to kill, easier to kill in combat, never pinning, maybe with a high Initiative for spotting distances, and lethal in large groups (maybe a custom combat score modifier to make taking on large groups suicidal... but sometimes plot driving and great for a campaign ). Heroes don't need to worry about pinning, but Overwatch and Hiding might become huge (Hiding especially).

Weapons could just be copy and paste with renames. Autogun, Hunting Rifle, Stub Gun, Autopistol, Heavy Stubber, Grenades, and Melee weapons could be all you really need. Higher Strength weapons become redundant when the Toughness on zombies is so low. I think they should be like T2 with a 5+ Save against shooting, or maybe T1 with a 4+ Save, that would work well for making them killable hoard creatures that keep coming at you. Ammo should be very sparse in this sort of setting, so Ammo Roll values could be toyed with further.

Let me know if any of this seems good, and what other aspects would need work/discussion. I really like this project, I dig zombies and have lots of zombie miniatures so am very keen to have the exact rules you described (not too technical but solid and great fun to play).

 

[trollmeat]

Would be fun to incorporate some rule, for when someone gets mobbed by Z's, that has some of the group pausing to tear apart and feed upon the corpse.

*screaming while being set upon by a dozen zombies* "...tell Frank I always loved him!" *ahhh* ... *gurgle chew gurlge*

 

[Boltzmann]

Have a look at chicago skirmishs annual halloween zombie games, they look like great fun.
http://chicagoskirmishwargames.com/blog/tag/zombies/

1st one is called "escape from new chicago", further ones are numberd as 2nd 3rd and 4th annual zombie games.

teaser pic:

 

[Boltzmann]

last year I did copy that zombie game idea into a Necromunda setting.
I had 3 players and let them use any 2 models from their gangs. They had to set up at 3 points along one table edge and evacuate to the fortified guild house at the other side.
every group was followed by a few zombies to get them running. I used rules for darkness to restrict shooting to 8" or 12" (random each turn).
on their way across the board they would find additional fighters that helped, zivilians that needed protection and zombies as obstacles.
zivilians would join the group and the victory contition was who rescued the most zivilians but the players decided to coop and formed a zivilian caravan in the middle with the heros circling the caravan and sometimes dashing into buildings to rescue more zivilians. The players cooperating really gave it an emergency feeling, old enemies fighting side by side to save little kids because ZOMBIES

I had 3 types of civilians:
grown ups and juveniles used the stats of a juve + stub gun
little scared kids that you have to take by the hand or else they won't move (base contact and blocking one hand from use so no basic weapon use while caring for a kid)
gandmas had M3 cannot run over dificoult terrein but had 2 free hands to care for little kids.

so the heros basically rescued a kid, brought it to the caravan and handed it over to a granny, then turned around to fight of a ZOMBIE or run to rescue the next kid.

one player got too explorative and moved away from the carawan so I sent in a few scavies and a giant scalie with 2handed weapon (and explaind the high impact rule).
That worked well to get him back on mission.

once they covered half of the distance the dudes at the guid house raised the alarm, and manned the fortifications.
every player was allowed to put 1 more fighter at the guild house ready to shoot at aproaching zombies... they also got a big searchlight at the guildhouse. (each turn they were allowed to place a gas cloud template anywhere on the table lighting that area, no rules for darkness under the template for that turn, anybody could shoot into the highlighted area from far away)
there was an area free from scatter terrein around the guild house to make it a really defensible position.

killed zombies allways regrow behind the heros joining the slowly advancing horde, fighting backwards will only slow down the horde so better get moving!
new zombies spawn left and right, preferably close to the most noisy heros.

game ended as the caravan moved into the safe house, it was a blast!!!!

 

[korabas]

Zombicide looks interesting...

I can vouch for zombicide! My group plays it a bunch and has the exoansions. The models are good (and numerous) and the mechanics are fun, although some of the missions are seriously hard!!

 

[trollmeat]

How do the Zombicide Z's compare in scale ro Necromunda figs?

Zombicide Black Plague looks good, heaps of Z's and the medieval setting sounds fun.

 

[korabas]

How do the Zombicide Z's compare in scale ro Necromunda figs?

Zombicide Black Plague looks good, heaps of Z's and the medieval setting sounds fun.

From memory, i think they will probly be a little small. True scale vs heroic scale style. Ill ask my bud and let you know when i hear back!