N18 Pistols in Close Combat combined with Jump Booster

[smelly butt face]

Firstly, just to clarify; pistols with the "Rapid Fire" ability do NOT get multiple shots in close combat regardless of what the Ammo Dice indicate, correct? I am under the impression that pistols only get a single shot in close combat being a Sidearm, and therefore do NOT get multiple hits in combat, similar to how the Sidearm trait ignores Accuracy bonuses. Is this right? I've been watching the "Miniatures Rundown" channel on YouTube and I think they are under the impression that you can get multiple pistol hits in combat (great channel btw).

Lore-wise, maybe it does make sense for a Rapid Fire weapon to shoot in bursts? Are pistols semi-automatic weapon in Necromunda that shoot multiple shells as you hold down the trigger or do gangers physically have to keep using their trigger fingers?

Also, if an Orlock Wrecker (Prospect) Charges with a Jump Booster, he/she gains +1 modifier to Hit and +1 modifier to their Strength. I'm guessing this is representative of the speed in which they come into combat, meaning more force behind their blows, and therefore higher strength melee attacks. I'd assume NOT, but would this extend to Sidearm weapons? Rules as written are: "for the duration of this activation they may apply both a +1 modifier to EACH Hit roll they make and a +1 modifier to their Strength characteristic". The Sidearm trait states that "their Accuracy bonus only applies when making a ranged attack", so I'm guessing the +1 modifier to Hit from the Jump Booster is ignored? But I'm assuming the Sidearm trait is only referring to their normal Accuracy bonus? So is it +1 to Hit? I think the contention is in the difference between "Hit Rolls" and "Accuracy Bonuses".

For instance:

A stub gun gets +2 Accuracy at Short Range when making a "ranged attack". But this Accuracy bonus is ignored in close combat. But does the Jump Booster now grant the stub gun a +1 modifier to Hit in close combat on the charge? Are "Hit Rolls" treated differently to "Accuracy Bonuses"? Lore-wise, I find this a bit odd. Wouldn't it be easier to hit someone with a pistol from point blank range, and therefore the Short Range accuracy should be applied? (I know it isn't). Or is the Short Range accuracy bonus not applied because it represents so much going on that maybe their pistol gets parried?

And surely this wouldn't increase the stub guns Strength right? Surely the velocity of the Wrecker doesn't make a S3 stub gun shot turn into a S4? I know rules as written says "+1 modifier to THEIR (the Wrecker's) Strength characteristic" so the "S" characteristic, and since pistols have a flat strength (3 for stub guns) it wouldn't be increased by the user, right? Weapons only have flat Strength characteristics, including melee weapons. Moreover, an Axe has a Strength of 1 and a Fighting Knife has a Strength of 0. Combined with the Fight's Strength, this makes the Axe S4 in most cases and S3 for the Fighting Knife. Combine that again with a Jump Booster on the Charge now making the Axe S5 and the Fighting Knife S4 respectively. Effectively the Axe and Fighting Knife are still S1 and S0, they are just buffed from the user (+3) and charge (+1). In saying that; if a stub gun's flat weapon Strength is 3, with no user's strength increases, maybe it does go to S4 due to the charge? Obviously a Fighter's Strength doesn't increase a weapon's (flat) Strength. For instance a S4 Fighter doesn't make a stub gun more powerful over a S3 Fighter. But maybe other abilities might? Fighter's Strength ignored (-), stub gun (S3) + charging with a Jump Booster (+1) = S4?


What do you guys think? I know that last bit was a bit convoluted. I kept changing my mind as to what I thought about the whole situation. It's probably easier just to say ranged weapons' Strength are not affected by modifiers. But their hit characteristics are.

 

[Hobo86]

rapid fire in melee:
they can have one rapid fire sidearm attack; so one to hit rol for a number of 'hits' on your target.
this counts as 1 attack for the purpose of dividing attacks between weapons

jump booster:
-your(short/long) ranged accuracy modifier only applies when not engaged in combat
-the strength of your pistol is fixed/defined by your ammo type so that won't be affected.
your +1 to hit will apply as your attacking with a pistol in melee
-in melee you can get different modifiers for attacking an already engaged model this can be combined with other modifiers

generally the auto pistol is best for melee/short range attacks,
stub pistols are more specialized in pinning an enemy up close,
and laspistols give more range

 

[Beebopalulla]

That is an interesting question for squat players.

Edit: i meant with the power packs weapons but also fear the squat stub gun RF1! Fear!

 

[Hobo86]

I may already have included that in a purely theoretical tapferkeit squat build

 

[Xisor_of_Karak_Izor]

Eh, we've long treated Rapid Fire as working in combat. Why wouldn't it?

(Realistically & mechanically. Mechanically, there's nothing to say it can't be done, and a lot that combines to say it can; it's hardly a stretch. You make one attack with a weapon with RF 2, you can still hit them several times. An automatic gun doesn't miraculously shoot slower just because someone's trying to kick you. Your finger can likely twitch a trigger faster than you can throw punches, even if you're really fast at punching.)

I'd have to look closer at the wording for Strength/to-hit bonuses, but I think it's sufficient to say that Short Range accuracy bonuses don't apply to pistols in close combat because they neither specify E for Short Range *nor* are versatile.

Similarly, the booster pack wording: I imagine it hinges on distinguishing "E"-ranged attacks (yes pistols!) versus "attacks whilst engaged!" (yes pistols!) versus "attacks with short range E" (no pistols, but weird phrasing!) versus "after a charge" (yes pistols!) versus "with close combat weapons" (no pistols!) versus some more vague and ambiguous wording (maybe pistols!?).

(My money's on #4!)

Logically, a bonus to hit seems fine: you're getting the jump on them.

But a bonus strength? No.

Intuitively, I'd expect Brutal Charge also not to apply to pistols.

(Speaking of Brutal Charge. A Squat Charter Master with Power Hammer, IH Bolt Pistol, and Brutal Charge is tremendous fun. Not unreasonable to be landing 4-to-6 S4, Ap-1, D2...or better, when BC/Power rules come into play.)

(A dual IH Autopistol Charter Master was tremendous fun too. Not especially effective, but the ol' 2×RF2 attacks in combat was mighty enjoyable, even adding in the extra two 'putting the boot in' unarmed attacks, or power pack situations! Not bad shooting either...)

 

[daveh]

rapid fire works in melee , but there is no range bonus