N18 [Please Help!] Developing Modest House Rules in preparation for Dominion Campaign

[Commissariat]

I'm back!

I am organizing a Necromunda-18 campaign on the computer through simulator, discord and yaktools. I have played N17, but I am primarily experienced with NCE/ORB. Having looked over the new rules and the discussion board here, I will be attempting to house rule some aspects of N18 to help out melee fighting. Below are my spitball ideas.


● House Gang Weapon List __prices__ are used for Gang Creation only
● Gangers cannot be equipped with special weapons, only Specialists.
● Grenade Launchers cost an additional 20-30 credits
● For every duplicate of a special weapon that you purchase, you add on a cumulative 25% credit cost. (ie: Second Plasmagun would be 125 creds)
● Shooting at a model that has ran or charged incurs a -1 to Hit penalty, does not stack with the penalty for the target being Engaged.

I want to capture the scrappy-feel of the ORB/NCE, so I am limiting special weapons and house gang prices. I am not going to worry myself over the armour saves that everyone has in this edition, but try and do subtle things. I still need to review the income rules, because I last remember it all being based on the champions which was very swingy as opposed to the ganger system of old.

Please help! I am not sold on all of these, so offer input freely.

 

[el_guestos]

If you're trying to boost CC may be an idea to have a rule that allows models to engage after making a basic move action (but forego the bonuses for charging) we've also house rules charge range to be M + (M/2) + D3 to make it a bit easier to get into CC

 

[cronevald]

Suggestion: Only one rare item purchase per trade action performed.

I'm iffy on the cumulative tax on special weapons as your're already limiting them but I think you've got a good start here.

 

[Petitioner's City]

I know this isn't modest, but this is the revision myself and my campaign group came up with - it's a fair amount of change based on our experience of a pretty mad Dominion game:

Necromunda - War for Luther's Prospect - Balanced Perpeptual Campaign Ruleset

Petitioner's City submitted a new resource: War for Luther's Prospect - Balanced Perpeptual Campaign Ruleset - A revision to many mechanics in N18 This is a wide-ranging revision to Necromunda 2018, working within what is reasonably possible using the Gang Manager here, but wishes to balance...

yaktribe.games

The main thing is having some kind of equalising cap on games - but from this stemmed lots of ideas to create what has been termed intriguingly as poverty chic.

My second main point would be to increase or improve how players get experience - in old Munda it was of course 1 EXP per wound caused, but each scenario gave quite a fair amount. I've tried to recreate that by making each rulebook EXP point equal D3 - hoping to ensure that it adds up quicker.

Finally, I know some people love the herohammer aspect of tactical character enhancement - but I found it didn't work; it was just toughness or similar strong stat increases. So we made a random experience roll for hero characters.

One thing I recommend, irrespective of how many changes you have or don't have, is providing a game guide for players, which lists all the steps required by players before and after games.

Otherwise, can't wait to hear how your campaign goes!

 

[Commissariat]

I have the cumulative tax to limit mass spam and promote variety. Plasma and Grenade Launchers, at least back in N17, were good enough to have multiples of even when we made people pay for grenades.

I took a glance through your document @Petitioner's City and it is pretty thorough. I will take another look as there were some bits in there I might use. I am gonna leave the core mechanics mostly intact as we're working with some newtimers.


__**House Rules**__
● House Gang Weapon List prices are used for Gang Creation only
● Gangers cannot be equipped with special weapons, only Specialists.
● Grenade Launchers cost an additional 30 credits
● For every duplicate of a special weapon or heavy weapon that you purchase, you add on a cumulative 25% credit cost. (ie: 2nd Plasmagun would be 125 creds)
● You may only make one rare item purchase per Trade Action.
● Shooting at a model that has ran or charged incurs a -1 to Hit penalty, does not stack with the penalty for the target being Engaged.
● You may Engage a model as part of your basic move action, but you incur no charge benefits

Here is the new list, trying to figure out if I should add the cumulative cost to heavy weapons too and if there is anything else I should consider.

 

[Scavvierising]

You could try awarding XP for serious injuries as well as out of action. That can speed up ganger advancement. Although causing a serious injury in CC and then coup de grace still only gets you 1xp etc.
Champions everywhere annoys me a bit. Maybe some of that cumulative tax stuff on their recruitment beyond the 2 you can start with is something to consider.
Liking the -1 to hit running targets!

 

[Commissariat]

I'm having it recommended to me to limit bolters to the special category, because they get spammed. Others are saying that you might as well do that to Hot Shot Las. I am inclined to let bolters pass. What are your thoughts?

Heavies were limited in NCE by people needing gangers for territories. How much would it break the system to have gangers/specialists/leaders work territories?

Are loadouts a necessary part of the game or do people usually let people go free-form on swapping equipment around and having a single loadout per model? Gang rating seems weird with it counting all cards. Why are the rules preventing people from pulling from the stash and only allow newbs to take what people put in there?

 

[el_guestos]

I would argue D2 and RF is makes bolters very different to hot shot las

 

[Commissariat]

My points/questions from post #7 still stand, but I like this bit from @Petitioner's City document:

● **Tactics Cards** During Gang Creation you must select thirty Tactics Cards , drawn from all published cards, that are compatible with your faction. To avoid certain cards being abused, you draw five cards randomly and choose two when you play a scenario. The three cards that are not chosen are discarded from the deck for the duration of the battle. Any additional cards required due to the difference in crew size or gang reputation, are drawn randomly from your remaining deck.

I want to make stray shots within 1/2", is that bad?

 

[JawRippa]

I highly recommend banning tactics like history of violence, or one that spawns a hole that instakills someone unless initiative is passed. Also pool of 30 is too small in my opinion. I think it’d be best if all tactics were shuffled and used the way you’ve described(selecting a tactic just means selecting one out of random set of 3). If player drew a tactic that can’t be used 100% in current mission(like something related to blaze when opponent has no blaze) then he shows it to opponent, discusses whether it is possible to make use of it and after agreement redraws a tactic.

Stray shots should hit on a roll of 1, not 1-3. I’d say that 1” is less iffy to measure but you do you.

 

[Kiro The Avenger]

I've had a go at this myself, creating a list of all the things I think need an adjustment in Necromunda, it came to about 10 pages, so obviously that's more than you want.
But I'll give my thoughts on your suggestions.

1. I think you should either house prices entirely or keep them, otherwise you'll create difficulty and confusion about gang ratings of fighters.
But also, is this change worth bothering with? Or is the benefit too minor?

2. This is a popular rule, but I dislike it. Mostly because the line between basic and special weapons is pretty insignificant.
Bolters, combat shotguns, and even shotguns are as good or better than many special weapons such as needle rifles or long rifles.
Although for shotguns and combat shotguns that can be mitigated by making special ammo 'special' as well.
Bolters though really need to be special weapons.

3. I definitely agree with.

4. Seems like a good idea, but similarly to issue 1, how does that increase in cost affect rating?

I like 5, and have considered increasing it to common items as well. Currently having a common item on the houselist is pretty irrelevant without a discount.

6. I like the idea of, but it's another token to take account of. But how long does it last for? Rest of the round, or until their next activation? Or even their next action?

7. I like this one as well.
But are they still able to attack? If so, they can make a 10" charge (12" with a 6" move) and still attack, which can be a bit much.

I think if you are doing houserules, you should address some of the core balance issues with the game.
Firstly, territories can be very misbalanced. The Archeotech Device and Needle ways immediately spring to mind.
Master crafted weapons are easy and cheap to obtain, and effectively allow ranged weapons to reroll every miss they get. It's a bit silly.
Van Saar are very powerful as a gang. +1BS is a massive boon, and they have cheap and easy access to very powerful armour. IMO they feel like special forces more than a gang.

And finally, not really a massive imbalance, but I find the stray shots mechanic extremely frustrating to deal with in game, as it ignores all cover a fighter might have (similar to blasts actually). Instead, I suggest that a fighter gets a -1 to being hit if in light cover, -2 if in heavy, and can't be hit if out of LoS. If they're prone that's -2 in light and immune if in heavy or out of LoS.
This prevents it being easier to 'accidently' hit someone than it is to intentionally aim and shoot them.

 

[Roflgon]

Stray shot queery, So two fighters next to each other, Your fighter shoots at them, Misses intended target, hits second with Stray shot. If weapon is Rapid fire, can some of the hits then be assigned to the intended target as well?

 

[Commissariat]

1. & 4 Rating would always be taken from the standard cost of an item like in NCE, whether they have a discount or tax, right?
   1. Ah, but underhive tools makes it funky. I see
2. People keep mentioning that bolters should be special weapons, but don't go further. Please elaborate.
3. -
4. My issue for this one is that it is hard to implement in the underhive tools
5. The house-list relevancy would be for the initial gang creation primarily, in this campaign part of the fluff is that the house gang factories get shut down but the arbites
6. My understanding is that it would last until

I might adopt the edits that @Petitioner's City had for Violence and stuff such as History of Violence not being able to effect leaders/champs

I'm tempted to change to the roll a 1 onto stray shots, but I don't know if I want to with the dominance of ranged firepower

Edit: Found I could make the 25% increase round to nearest 5 and then make a custom equipment called "Tax" and people can add it to their fighters as much as they need to.

 

[Kiro The Avenger]

Bolters should be special weapons because at S4, AP-1, D2, Rapid fire, they're easily as good as many of the special weapons.
And for only 55cr, they're a bargain.

The problem with stray shots is that they can be exploited to hit people you can't see, or hit well hidden fighters more easily.
So I don't think making stray shots less likely notably buffs ranged shooters.
Simply making it a 1 is the easiest fix.

As for rapid fire, stray shots work differently in that situation, as follows.
Say you miss, and roll 3 bullets.
Rather than rolling 1 stray shot, you roll 3. Any that miss the first target get rolled for on the second, and so on, until they've all hit something or there's no more targets.
You don't roll for all 3 bullets with a single hit roll.

 

[JawRippa]

Bolters should be special weapons because at S4, AP-1, D2, Rapid fire, they're easily as good as many of the special weapons.
And for only 55cr, they're a bargain.

The problem with stray shots is that they can be exploited to hit people you can't see, or hit well hidden fighters more easily.
So I don't think making stray shots less likely notably buffs ranged shooters.
Simply making it a 1 is the easiest fix.

As for rapid fire, stray shots work differently in that situation, as follows.
Say you miss, and roll 3 bullets.
Rather than rolling 1 stray shot, you roll 3. Any that miss the first target get rolled for on the second, and so on, until they've all hit something or there's no more targets.
You don't roll for all 3 bullets with a single hit roll.

better have it be a roll of 1 means 1 hit, no matter how many ammo dice were rolled. A stray shot, is a stray SHOT, as in single, not a stray burst

 

[Commissariat]

Is the issue with bolters or easy access to ammo cache like stuff?

 

[Kiro The Avenger]

The issue is with bolters. Their stats are comparable or better than most special weapons, and they're very cheap for said statline.

If you include special ammo, combat shotguns are basically flamers but cheaper and better, and shotguns with executioner are also very strong.

@JawRippa, I'm not sure what you mean with stray shots.
With the current rules a stray shot will only ever cause 1 hit, but rapid fire weapons create multiple stray shots when they miss.
So just changing the current rules to hitting on a 1 instead of 1-3 is simple and effective.
Personally, I like some more nuance but whatever.
I suggest keeping it as 1-3 when firing into close combat, at least, though.

 

[Commissariat]

Good suggestion on shooting into close combat!

Okay, I think I found an alternative to messing with credit costs thanks to @Petitioner's City :

 

[Scavvierising]

Your limited resources rule is some out the box thinking for sure but I like it. I'm sure a lot of gangs will just get one or 2 munitioneer champs in their gang but it should reduce the spam. Spam is greatest enemy we know.

 

[Commissariat]

Your limited resources rule is some out the box thinking for sure but I like it. I'm sure a lot of gangs will just get one or 2 munitioneer champs in their gang but it should reduce the spam. Spam is greatest enemy we know.

All credit for Limited Resources belongs to @Petitioner's City , all I did was make the description more compact. But, thank you!