Necromunda Pre-Delaque/GW5/Compendium Release Ramblings

[Thorgor]

I'd say Toxin got nerfed hard but I need to do the math to be sure. Big difference with the previous rule is that passing the test only gives you an Injury roll (while the target was auto OoA with the previous rule) and a tie gives you nothing (Serious Injury with the previous rules)

 

[TopsyKretts]

Surely they must have defined the term "Toughness check", that's exactly what the new Toxin is, no?

 

[Mothman]

I don't see the motivation for weapon slots! Played Genestealer Cults for a while, never took more than 2 weapons anyway (bloat).

combine with bulging biceps and build chainglaive+2nd CC weapon and a normal gun. or for cawdor champs with crossbows, take crossbow + pole arm Its better than currently no skills being worth it on cawdor champs, last 2 campaigns I never even wrote down skills for my champs.

 

[Paupoi]

Really happy with what was shown so far. Gonna watch it before bed tonight.

 

[Trafalgar Law]

I hadn't realised it was a normal injury roll for Toxin now. That's a massive nerf. Almost as bad as the original version now.

 

[cronevald]

As a toxin reliant Escher player I don't mind this as I thought the previous rule was maybe a bit too potent. It still has a good chance to drop multi-wound targets or reduce their Toughness. It does make me wonder if they've changed the Chem Synth to no longer require an action. Probably hoping for too much with that one.

 

[UnderhiveBerzerker]

I hadn't realised it was a normal injury roll for Toxin now. That's a massive nerf. Almost as bad as the original version now.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. However I would not call it useless, just no longer an no-brainer choice.
Escher just got hit right in the ****

 

[Thorgor]

Toxin is now akin to fixed S4 (against anything that is T2, 3, 4 or 5) + ignore multi-wound. Still good for S2 juves.

 

[Trafalgar Law]

It's basically reduced toxin to a strength 4 weapon equivalent. While it ignores multiple wounds I'd say it's worse than S4 D2 weapon like a shotgun now against most targets. It"s better on the cc weapons, but needle weapons are questionable now.

 

[Mothman]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. However I would not call it useless, just no longer an no-brainer choice.
Escher just got hit right in the ****

its a rough hit but wip just got pretty good in return, taking disarm+wip now means you can indiana jones whip weapons out of peoples hand before they even engage you, aswell as giving in theory a +2 move CC champ a 7(8 if an ex juve)"+d3+3" charge range for possibly a 13" charge with shock whip, which might now make the whip worth taking over just swords, stiletto sword+wip will be a pretty nice combo

edit- adding onto my stupidly broken speed build

juve champ +2 movement+dash+whip
movement 8", overseer her to sprint 24" (could then charge out to threaten 37" first turn) or double dash to get to 48" up the board and charge next turn

-In fact with 12" deployment you can charge 49" first turn

 

[Thorgor]

taking disarm+wip now means you can indiana jones whip weapons out of peoples hand before they even engage you

I get the cinematic appeal but unless they changed what Disarm does this is pretty useless, as the target cannot make any Reaction attack if they are not Engaged.

Change to Versatile will make the Cawdor polearms a lot better (useable, at the very least).

 

[Jam Warrior]

No word on how they are handling the two current campaign types?

 

[TopsyKretts]

Turf War was perhaps a mistake, something they want to throw a vortex grenade at. The Special Territories was mostly copy-pasted from original Necromunda. The mechanics of Special Territories was also bad, many gangs would never even gain any of them. The rest of the campaign rules had bugs, for example advancements which was corrected in GW4 with Dominion campaign.

I'd love to see both campaigns. But would they be able to create a useful layout for it? I had to separate those things that were common to a new chapter, let's call it "Generic Campaign rules" that include things like lasting injuries, advancements, xp etc. Then I had to detail each campaign type in separate subsequent chapters. Or they duplicate the common parts for both types of campaigns into their own chapters. First of all, they have not been good with layout, so this may be too complicated for them. Secondly, duplication has proved to be disastrous in N17.

The page "HOUSE GANGS" and subchapter "GANG COMPOSITION" is not compatible with Turf War, because it does not have any limits on Champions except the usual 2 before the first game. Which means that anyone would just save all their money and buy champs after 1st game. Or they would need to make additional limitations somewhere else (not shown on the image).

 

[almic85]

Having just done the maths on the old and new toxin rules I can say that you are more likely to cause an injury of some type (FW, SI, or OOA) with the new rule, but you are more likely to cause a SI or OOA with the old rule.

That said when you start to look at the effect of that multiple flesh wounds has the new rule certainly is a better team player weapon than the original.

Edit: looking at it a bit more the old rule was much better at taking people OOA, but the new rule is more likely to SI the target.

T4 is even chances and T5 and T6 you are more likely to have an effect with the old rule than the new (which would most likely take them OOA).

 

[almic85]

Turf War was perhaps a mistake, something they want to throw a vortex grenade at. The Special Territories was mostly copy-pasted from original Necromunda. The mechanics of Special Territories was also bad, many gangs would never even gain any of them. The rest of the campaign rules had bugs, for example advancements which was corrected in GW4 with Dominion campaign.

I'd love to see both campaigns. But would they be able to create a useful layout for it? I had to separate those things that were common to a new chapter, let's call it "Generic Campaign rules" that include things like lasting injuries, advancements, xp etc. Then I had to detail each campaign type in separate subsequent chapters. Or they duplicate the common parts for both types of campaigns into their own chapters. First of all, they have not been good with layout, so this may be too complicated for them. Secondly, duplication has proved to be disastrous in N17.

The page "HOUSE GANGS" and subchapter "GANG COMPOSITION" is not compatible with Turf War, because it does not have any limits on Champions except the usual 2 before the first game. Which means that anyone would just save all their money and buy champs after 1st game. Or they would need to make additional limitations somewhere else (not shown on the image).

You can only see the first line of the Gang Compisition rules in the screen shot. There is at least one dot point right underneath the starting gang champion limit of two. One would assume that the same rule that applies to Turf War and Dominion campaigns that limits champions based on Reputation will still be in effect.

 

[Thorgor]

Having just done the maths on the old and new toxin rules I can say that you are more likely to cause an injury of some type (FW, SI, or OOA) with the new rule, but you are more likely to cause a SI or OOA with the old rule.

It depends on the target's Toughness. Against T4+ the old rule has a better chance to do something.
Here is the math:

 

[el_guestos]

It depends on the target's Toughness. Against T4+ the old rule has a better chance to do something.
Here is the math:
View attachment 71458

Thanks for that! Maybe I'm missing something but how can the new toxin v3 have 0% chance to do a flesh wound on a 1...surely there's always a chance of a flesh wound (2/6)? Sorry if I'm seeming nit picky but the truth is i'm more questioning my understanding of the table.

 

[autoxidation]

@Thorgor Thanks for taking the time to take all those screenshots and take notes about the discussion.

It's starting to look like this compendium is more a rewrite of the entire rules, which is for the better IMO. Versatile actually useful, toxin rebalanced, cover changing... I'm actually kind of impressed.

 

[TopsyKretts]

From experience I know it is required to rewrite the rules in order to make a compendium. But more than rewriting the rules to fix contradictions, they seem to have improved it in many ways yes.

 

[almic85]

Thanks for that! Maybe I'm missing something but how can the new toxin v3 have 0% chance to do a flesh wound on a 1...surely there's always a chance of a flesh wound (2/6)? Sorry if I'm seeming nit picky but the truth is i'm more questioning my understanding of the table.

The FW on T1 is an auto OOA which is why it’s not on the table.