N18 Psychic delaque starter roster

[DoomMerchant]

Hi all,

I am messing about with a delaque list starting with a psycher that can actually get going in a campaign.

This is the best I can come up with.

1) is this too powerful/ or too 1 dimensional?

2) while I can get xp on the gheist like this will I ever use it with the expensive harness?

3) what power should I give the psygheist if I am to use them like this?

I have considered going with a worm and a pistol or just a stave (it looks cool and psycher to have a staff) to try and get some melee xp early on. Then use the creds to get something better on my specialist maybe? I've always wanted to play with a grab gun.

Anyway thoughts would be appreciated

Psychic delaque

Psychic delaque 2

 

[HugeSamples]

I'd like to offer advise, but the format you posted is unreadable to me.

Could you provide a Yak link instead?

 

[DoomMerchant]

Psychic delaque 2

 

[DoomMerchant]

I'd like to offer advise, but the format you posted is unreadable to me.

Could you provide a Yak link instead?

Very fair comment. And thank you

 

[Hobo86]

I theory-crafted a delaque leader with an overwatch shotgun build, but with executionner bullets (more acc at longer range) and an infrasight,
that way you could reliably shut down a target up to 16?

 

[DoomMerchant]

I

I theory-crafted a delaque leader with an overwatch shotgun build, but with executionner bullets (more acc at longer range) and an infrasight,
that way you could reliably shut down a target up to 16?

Actually currently run my leader that way but I always buy the executioners later. A leader with 3+ bs is good anyway. The build is aimed at them being cheap and dangerous out the gate.

 

[HugeSamples]

You have at least 8 models, so you're doing well there.

I'm not sure if it's great to start out with a shock stave on your leader. I might hold out for a trading post melee weapon, but it's not terrible. Of the two builds I think the mentor one is more interesting. If you're going Overseer then your leader is over equipped.

Nacht-Ghul is fine.

I'm personally not a huge fans of long rifles, but there are those that swear by them--I must be doing something wrong with them as they never seem to do much. Both Fixer and Overwatch are great skills. Another spicy Overwatch combination is with a Grav Gun.

Specialists you can do whatever with. I often take a Web weapon of some kind on them to mitigate their bad stats.

Psy-Gheits you need to be careful with. They are an Unsanctioned Psyker. Any time they get taken out of action your opponent gets a free D3x10 credits. Furthermore, if they get captured they are sold, immediately, for full value, with no chance of rescue. However you plan to play them, you need to keep them safe. Unfortunately, Psychoteric Whispers are often not worth this risk. That said I like the idea of psykers so I still play them. You might want to keep them lightly equipped--just a stubgun, or even just the shock stave (pretty thematic)--since if they aren't using their powers then they aren't doing their job. Even with the harness I feel like they are still a heavy risk. I like to get the Wyrms asap (after a game or two) on them for Whisper use. Skin blades can help reduce the chance they get captured. Whisper wise there is definitely a short list of the ones that are useable.

The Piscean Spektor is a living blender and will get work done, but it has all the same pitfalls of being an unsanctioned psyker. They are also pretty large (and usually hard to get into cover due to being on a flying base), so they are often pretty easy to shoot at.

Now the crux of you build is you have no real meat and potatoes gangers to get in the way to be annoying/distracting. You have a couple of shadows--who won't really get much of anything done for a while and can be effectively ignored. Any model you have that gets taking out of action is a huge hit to your team since they are all expensive. Smoke works a mitigating this for a bit, but people will quickly start picking up infrasights and photo-goggles for other reasons in addition to smoke.

I might wait on getting the Piscean Spektor and get some gangers with the usual stuff--lasguns, autoguns, and shotguns. If you're feeling spicy you can throw in some of the good pistols--delaque have exceptional pistol access. If you do want to get a Hanger-on, Whisper Merchants quickly pay for themselves and/or Rogue Docs are nice to have.

 

[DoomMerchant]

You have at least 8 models, so you're doing well there.

I'm not sure if it's great to start out with a shock stave on your leader. I might hold out for a trading post melee weapon, but it's not terrible. Of the two builds I think the mentor one is more interesting. If you're going Overseer then your leader is over equipped.

Nacht-Ghul is fine.

I'm personally not a huge fans of long rifles, but there are those that swear by them--I must be doing something wrong with them as they never seem to do much. Both Fixer and Overwatch are great skills. Another spicy Overwatch combination is with a Grav Gun.

Specialists you can do whatever with. I often take a Web weapon of some kind on them to mitigate their bad stats.

Psy-Gheits you need to be careful with. They are an Unsanctioned Psyker. Any time they get taken out of action your opponent gets a free D3x10 credits. Furthermore, if they get captured they are sold, immediately, for full value, with no chance of rescue. However you plan to play them, you need to keep them safe. Unfortunately, Psychoteric Whispers are often not worth this risk. That said I like the idea of psykers so I still play them. You might want to keep them lightly equipped--just a stubgun, or even just the shock stave (pretty thematic)--since if they aren't using their powers then they aren't doing their job. Even with the harness I feel like they are still a heavy risk. I like to get the Wyrms asap (after a game or two) on them for Whisper use. Skin blades can help reduce the chance they get captured. Whisper wise there is definitely a short list of the ones that are useable.

The Piscean Spektor is a living blender and will get work done, but it has all the same pitfalls of being an unsanctioned psyker. They are also pretty large (and usually hard to get into cover due to being on a flying base), so they are often pretty easy to shoot at.

Now the crux of you build is you have no real meat and potatoes gangers to get in the way to be annoying/distracting. You have a couple of shadows--who won't really get much of anything done for a while and can be effectively ignored. Any model you have that gets taking out of action is a huge hit to your team since they are all expensive. Smoke works a mitigating this for a bit, but people will quickly start picking up infrasights and photo-goggles for other reasons in addition to smoke.

I might wait on getting the Piscean Spektor and get some gangers with the usual stuff--lasguns, autoguns, and shotguns. If you're feeling spicy you can throw in some of the good pistols--delaque have exceptional pistol access. If you do want to get a Hanger-on, Whisper Merchants quickly pay for themselves and/or Rogue Docs are nice to have.

Thanks for the tips and getting back to me on this.

In terms of the short list of powers what do you recommend? I get that delaque psychers are not good but they are cool and I want to try them.

I think I am going to revise the list to this:

I think I will go overseer on the leader and aim to get mentor when I can and drop the stave.

To lean into delaque being tricky on the table I'm going overwatch on the long rifle.

I'm going to upgrade a stub gun and smoke juve to an autogun and smoke ganger.

 

[HugeSamples]

These are my opinions on the different whispers--others may have different opinions.

Madness:
- Existential Barrage (simple): unusable without using choirs (you cannot be within 1" of an enemy if you're not in base to base).
- Terrible Truths (basic): insanity is a strong condition. However, most models have a 7+ or better intelligence which means without choirs this is going to fail to land more often than not.
- Psychotic Lure (basic): situational. It can be good, but it needs a lot of things to line up.
- Cyclopean Gaze (double): unusable without using choirs (you cannot be within 1" of an enemy if you're not in base to base).
- Craven Howl (basic, continuous effect): not good enough to waste activations on.
- Unrememberable Utterance (simple): seems good on paper, but is hard to set up in a meaningful way.

Delusion:
- Spatial Psychosis (simple): the universally good whisper option, generally always useful.
- Seen Unseen (basic, continuous effect): can be annoying, but situational and "meh" at best.
- Ghost and Shadow (basic): can be "useful" if you have a lot of backstab weapons or want to turn off Overwatch. However, spatial psychosis is better at turning off Overwatch. Pretty situational.
- Deceitful Thoughts (double): can be good. However, most models have a 7+ or better intelligence which means without choirs this is going to fail to land more often than not.
- Suicidal Embrace (basic): can be good if your opponent has a lot of scary melee models. However, most models have a 7+ or better intelligence which means without choirs this is going to fail to land more often than not.
- Opprobrious Curse (simple): it's ok at finishing off people that have already taken flesh wounds (making it more likely to succeed). It's also one of the few whispers that can grant experience.

Darkness:
- Cacophony of Silence (double, continuous effect): can be useful if you can spend a double action to cast it. Loses power late game as people get better ballistic skill.
- Penumbral Mirror (basic): useful for moving ghuls around if you can satisfy the casting condition. It pretty much requires wyrms to use. It can be pretty strong if you can get it off.
- A Perfect Void (basic, continuous effect): if you're within 10" you're probably within a weapons short range. If you're standing in the open such that this does something, have you tried not doing that?
- Eternal Slumber (double): usually a "win more" action. It can be good for cleaning up a webgun's handy work. It's also one of the few whispers that can grant the caster experience.
- Cloak of Whispers (basic, continuous effect): if you're not playing with tactic cards, then it does nothing. If you are playing with tactics cards it doesn't do much.
- Sight Blight (basic, continuous effect): it's not entirely clear how this works (or ever worked). Do you need to do per model book keeping for who is an isn't revealed as people enter an exit its range? Pitch Black was replaced with Visibility(x), do you need to roll on a table to see what range it applied? (I would rule it as it always applies the old Pitch Black range of 3".)

The Short List:
- Spatial Psychosis
- Terrible Truths
- Penumbral Mirror

Everything else is pretty niche/situational.

 

[HugeSamples]

To lean into delaque being tricky on the table I'm going overwatch on the long rifle.

Try it with a Grav Gun. I think you'll enjoy it more. Especially since you said you really wanted to use Grav in your original post.

 

[JayTee]

Perfect Void has some utility on a murdersquid Piscean Spektor; the size of the model means you'll struggle to justify that they are in full cover so this gives you something particularly if you're playing a ZM game. That it's a continuous effect is also useful so you can pop it and then do what a murdersquid should be doing, which is moving towards the enemy menacingly ready to drop 10 attacks on any hapless mook rather than wasting actions on not murdering.

 

[HugeSamples]

Perfect Void has some utility on a murdersquid Piscean Spektor; the size of the model means you'll struggle to justify that they are in full cover so this gives you something particularly if you're playing a ZM game. That it's a continuous effect is also useful so you can pop it and then do what a murdersquid should be doing, which is moving towards the enemy menacingly ready to drop 10 attacks on any hapless mook rather than wasting actions on not murdering.

That's a pretty good use for it. I suppose a melee gheist could also get a similar benefit.

Do bear in mind you're risking Perils of the Warp every turn you refresh it.

 

[DoomMerchant]

These are my opinions on the different whispers--others may have different opinions.

Madness:
- Existential Barrage (simple): unusable without using choirs (you cannot be within 1" of an enemy if you're not in base to base).
- Terrible Truths (basic): insanity is a strong condition. However, most models have a 7+ or better intelligence which means without choirs this is going to fail to land more often than not.
- Psychotic Lure (basic): situational. It can be good, but it needs a lot of things to line up.
- Cyclopean Gaze (double): unusable without using choirs (you cannot be within 1" of an enemy if you're not in base to base).
- Craven Howl (basic, continuous effect): not good enough to waste activations on.
- Unrememberable Utterance (simple): seems good on paper, but is hard to set up in a meaningful way.

Delusion:
- Spatial Psychosis (simple): the universally good whisper option, generally always useful.
- Seen Unseen (basic, continuous effect): can be annoying, but situational and "meh" at best.
- Ghost and Shadow (basic): can be "useful" if you have a lot of backstab weapons or want to turn off Overwatch. However, spatial psychosis is better at turning off Overwatch. Pretty situational.
- Deceitful Thoughts (double): can be good. However, most models have a 7+ or better intelligence which means without choirs this is going to fail to land more often than not.
- Suicidal Embrace (basic): can be good if your opponent has a lot of scary melee models. However, most models have a 7+ or better intelligence which means without choirs this is going to fail to land more often than not.
- Opprobrious Curse (simple): it's ok at finishing off people that have already taken flesh wounds (making it more likely to succeed). It's also one of the few whispers that can grant experience.

Darkness:
- Cacophony of Silence (double, continuous effect): can be useful if you can spend a double action to cast it. Loses power late game as people get better ballistic skill.
- Penumbral Mirror (basic): useful for moving ghuls around if you can satisfy the casting condition. It pretty much requires wyrms to use. It can be pretty strong if you can get it off.
- A Perfect Void (basic, continuous effect): if you're within 10" you're probably within a weapons short range. If you're standing in the open such that this does something, have you tried not doing that?
- Eternal Slumber (double): usually a "win more" action. It can be good for cleaning up a webgun's handy work. It's also one of the few whispers that can grant the caster experience.
- Cloak of Whispers (basic, continuous effect): if you're not playing with tactic cards, then it does nothing. If you are playing with tactics cards it doesn't do much.
- Sight Blight (basic, continuous effect): it's not entirely clear how this works (or ever worked). Do you need to do per model book keeping for who is an isn't revealed as people enter an exit its range? Pitch Black was replaced with Visibility(x), do you need to roll on a table to see what range it applied? (I would rule it as it always applies the old Pitch Black range of 3".)

The Short List:
- Spatial Psychosis
- Terrible Truths
- Penumbral Mirror

Everything else is pretty niche/situational.

Thanks so much for the time on this! I think I will go with the gravgun on overwatch and try to see if I can get spatial and penumbral on the geist.


Really appreciated once again.

 

[Hobo86]

@HugeSamples

I read your write up and I was wondering if the psychoteric worm (only for the psygheist) would open up a number of the other psychic powers?
if you use the wyrms as 'psyker relays' you should be able to use a number of skills more offensively. Looking at the Delaque rules, the gang appears to be build around that interaction.

 

[HugeSamples]

@HugeSamples

I read your write up and I was wondering if the psychoteric worm (only for the psygheist) would open up a number of the other psychic powers?
if you use the wyrms as 'psyker relays' you should be able to use a number of skills more offensively. Looking at the Delaque rules, the gang appears to be build around that interaction.

They Wyrms are critical to using most of the Whispers (especially the Double action powers).

The real issue with the Whispers is their opposed Int checks since most enemy models have at least a 7+ int. Which means. assuming you passed the Willpower check, you're going to fail 58.3% of the time.

Choirs are there to make things more reliable, but are challenging to set up. If you can get at least one gang member in Choir range, reducing their Int check from a 7+ to an 8+, your odds of success go from 41.7% -> 58.3% (again assuming you passed the Willpower check to cast the Whisper).

In short you have to jump through a lot of hoops to get very "middling" results compared to just shooting someone with a good gun. In order to jump through said hoops more often you need Wyrms.

That said I like Psykers so I use them regardless, and every now and then I get to pickle my opponent . However, more often than not, I feel like my Psy-Gheists are "dead models"--not a threat to the enemy--on the table.

I'm sure there are much better players out there than me, so maybe others will have better advice that I'd love to hear .

 

[Hobo86]

Thank you for your answer,

I'm not a delaque player, but I made a few lists as a er... dubious strategy to understand what makes Delaques tick.

Not every skill is based on intelligence checks, like spatial psychosis (pin a nearby model, shoot another if you don't move) & penumbral mirror (launch nachtghul or murdersquid). You'd still need to boost the willpower on the psy-gheist to get that off, but at least in theory it could work..

 

[HugeSamples]

Not every skill is based on intelligence checks, like spatial psychosis (pin a nearby model, shoot another if you don't move) & penumbral mirror (launch nachtghul or murdersquid). You'd still need to boost the willpower on the psy-gheist to get that off, but at least in theory it could work..

Spatial Psychosis is also a simple action so you can use it twice to pin two models.

The lack of Int checks for these two powers are one of the reasons they are on my short list of "good" powers.

 

[Hobo86]

Spatial Psychosis is also a simple action so you can use it twice to pin two models.

The lack of Int checks for these two powers are one of the reasons they are on my short list of "good" powers.

ok, time to tweak this list / the spatial psychosis

 

[wildboar66]

Have you though about using a psychoteric thrall? They extend the range of your psychic powers and they get a gun as well.

 

[Hobo86]

I believe @HugeSamples amples already proposed/explained this