N18 Question about grav-cutter's "can never fall"-rule

Orhzov

Juve
Aug 22, 2020
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I have a question about grav-cutters, more specifically about the "can never fall"-part of the rules. What happens, if a fighter equipped with a grav-cutter gets pushed over an edge when hit by an attack with the knockback trait? Are any of the following scenarios correct:
  1. The fighter stops moving at the edge of the platform and doesn't fall, as if they had succesfully passed an initiative check (as stated in Knockback-rules).
  2. The fighter is pushed over the edge, but "hovers" in the air (you'd have to make a note of their "real" position).
  3. The fighter falls to the lower level, but doesn't get pinned or take any falling damage.
What do you think? If someone could refer to official rules or an FAQ, that would be much appreciated.
 
They can never fall so they will stop at the edge as if they passed the initiative check. The model either stops at the edge or falls, check dependant. One option can never happen so it is logical that the other option always happens.
 
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They can never fall so they will stop at the edge as if they passed the initiative check. The model either stops at the edge or falls, check dependant. One option can never happen so it is logical that the other option always happens.
So, they can never fall - but still they fall? If that is the case, what does the "can never fall"-part even mean?

edit. oh no wait, I totally read that one wrong - my bad :D
 
There isn't any I check involved if it's a case of Knockback though, eh? I'd say that if Knocked Back off a ledge they'd simply sink/float to the lower level but take no Falling damage and not Pinned, I guess. We're talking about the Van Saar Neotek hoverboards, right?
 
There isn't any I check involved if it's a case of Knockback though, eh? I'd say that if Knocked Back off a ledge they'd simply sink/float to the lower level but take no Falling damage and not Pinned, I guess. We're talking about the Van Saar Neotek hoverboards, right?
We are talking about Neotek grav-cutters, yes. I'm referring to rules of knockback, where it states: "If any part of the knocked back fighter's base crosses the edge of a platform, make an Initiative check. If this is failed, they will fall. If this is passed, they stop moving at the edge of the platform."
 
Ah right I was thinking of them being knocked clear off the edge so the base is completely off, thus no I check, but if it's only partially off then yeah do an I check and if failed float safely down, if passed stop at edge. IMHO.
 
Ah right I was thinking of them being knocked clear off the edge so the base is completely off, thus no I check, but if it's only partially off then yeah do an I check and if failed float safely down, if passed stop at edge. IMHO.
Fair enough, but in this case what does the "can never fall"-part mean if the fighter still falls down, even if not taking any fall damage?
 
Ah right I was thinking of them being knocked clear off the edge so the base is completely off, thus no I check, but if it's only partially off then yeah do an I check and if failed float safely down, if passed stop at edge. IMHO.
Also, is it true that you wouldn't get an initiative check if your model's base is entirely over the edge?
 
I think of it from a narrative realism point of view: The hoverboard guy isn't falling, he's skilfully descending as his grav-plates' up-thrust or whatever can't maintain the height of the ledge he just got shoved off. A hoverboard doesn't negate the momentum and force etc of a Goliath-swung Spudjacker such that it maintains complete positional inertia as the wrench bounces back off it, but it does hover and slow a fall to a graceful descent, right? That's how I make sense of it.
 
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I think of it from a narrative realism point of view: The hoverboard guy isn't falling, he's skilfully descending as his grav-plates' up-thrust or whatever can't maintain the height of the ledge he just got shoved off. A hoverboard doesn't negate the momentum and force etc of a Goliath-swung Spudjacker such that it maintains complete positional inertia as the wrench bounces back off it, but it does hover and slow a fall to a graceful descent, right? That's how I make sense of it.
While it does make narrative sense, the fighter still falls in this scenario and according to rules that shouldn't be possible.

Edit. Also, wouldn't it be narratively possible for the fighter to be pushed back by the force of the hit, but they manage to steer their hoverboard back to the surface, which is why they are considered stopping at the edge? :D
 
Also, wouldn't it be narratively possible for the fighter to be pushed back by the force of the hit, but they manage to steer their hoverboard back to the surface, which is why they are considered stopping at the edge? :D
Hah, there you have me, fair enough. I can't find any rule addressing this more specifically than the Blaze weapon Trait, where someone on fire runs 2d6 in a random direction and "If this movement takes the fighter beyond the edge of a level, platform or pitfall, they will simply fall." (or float safely down due to gravity-cushioning wargear as the case may be). I'd say hoverboards, gravchutes, wings or whatever, if your base has been moved against your will for whatever reason completely clear off the edge, then no way should you get an I check and you should at least be inconvenienced by finding yourself a level lower even if you 'Never Fall' or take damage from Falling, but you play your way dude (y)
 
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Hah, there you have me, fair enough. I can't find any rule addressing this more specifically than the Blaze weapon Trait, where someone on fire runs 2d6 in a random direction and "If this movement takes the fighter beyond the edge of a level, platform or pitfall, they will simply fall." (or float safely down due to gravity-cushioning wargear as the case may be). I'd say hoverboards, gravchutes, wings or whatever, if your base has been moved against your will for whatever reason completely clear off the edge, then no way should you get an I check and you should at least be inconvenienced by finding yourself a level lower even if you 'Never Fall' or take damage from Falling, but you play your way dude (y)
Thanks for your opinion, there really should be an FAQ about this :D
 
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Complete opinion here but "moving down a level" is not necessarily "falling". Falling in necromunda is very specific and not all downward vertical movement is falling. So never being able to fall is not the same as never moving downward...

That's my opinion, place the model where it actually fits (never falling but very possibly being placed lower than where they started), following any other rules you can.
 
Complete opinion here but "moving down a level" is not necessarily "falling". Falling in necromunda is very specific and not all downward vertical movement is falling. So never being able to fall is not the same as never moving downward...

That's my opinion, place the model where it actually fits (never falling but very possibly being placed lower than where they started), following any other rules you can.
That a good point, although in the rules of knockback it is stated that the fighter would indeed fall: "If any part of the knocked back fighter's base crosses the edge of a platform, make an Initiative check. If this is failed, they will fall. If this is passed, they stop moving at the edge of the platform."
 
Why not simply play it as never suffer fall damage? Throw something that hovers off a building? It glides down to the bottom without damage. Easy and sensible.
 
Why not simply play it as never suffer fall damage? Throw something that hovers off a building? It glides down to the bottom without damage. Easy and sensible.
This is actually how we went, which resulted in my poor Neotek getting charged at and annihilated :D This led to discussion on what the rule actually means and could it be played as it is written.
 
If completely knocked off edge of platform, and accepting doesn’t ‘fall’ (as in, is still considered to retain footing on grav cutter), why does it have to fall/float/move down?

I think in rules are intended to show it can’t be forced to fall/descend down levels as gravity is being counteracted.

So if knocked off the edge it will just be knocked off the edge.

In game terms, you cant show the model to be there, floating in mid-air… so I’d be inclined to just go with placing at edge of platform; the fighter has been knocked off the edge, but doesn’t (can’t) fall and just leans the cutter back after initial knock to move back next to / on / above platform. Removes all complications of ‘what if there is a fighter/pitfall/impassible terrain wheer the fighter would have fallen.
 
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If completely knocked off edge of platform, and accepting doesn’t ‘fall’ (as in, is still considered to retain footing on grav cutter), why does it have to fall/float/move down?

I think in rules are intended to show it can’t be forced to fall/descend down levels as gravity is being counteracted.

So if knocked off the edge it will just be knocked off the edge.

In game terms, you cant show the model to be there, floating in mid-air… so I’d be inclined to just go with placing at edge of platform; the fighter has been knocked off the edge, but doesn’t (can’t) fall and just leans the cutter back after initial knock to move back next to / on / above platform. Removes all complications of ‘what if there is a fighter/pitfall/impassible terrain wheer the fighter would have fallen.
No problem playing like that, arguably it could be fluffy and make sense. But I'd argue strongly this is not GW's intent, because it's about practicality and stuff being represented "as is". If a model is placed on the ground, it is on the ground, not 10" above ground. That's why they insisted on having separate 2d rules for LOS. No problem imagining walls or even using 3rd party walls (back then), but time and time again GW printed rules so you wouldn't have to imagine walls. I'm sure there are other similar examples too.
 
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