N18 Question about Hive Scum Dramatis Personae and the Fighing Pit

The Tall Order

New Member
May 24, 2019
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Hey folks!

I recently took possession of the Fighting Pits our campaign, which reads:

"Whilst it controls this territory, the gang may recruit two Hive Scum Hired Guns for free, including their equipment, prior to every battle"

Does this include the two named Hive Scum Hired Guns, Grub Targeson and Mad Dog Mono? I don't know why it wouldn't given the wording, but just want to make sure I'm following the rules. Mono is garbage, but Grub's skills actually make him a bit scary in the right circumstance. I picked up some Forge World resin and would love to see it on the table!

I took a look at the existing threads mentioning hive scum and didn't turn up anything. Any guidance appreciated!
 

Thorgor

Of The YAQ
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I don't think there are any rule governing Dramatis Personae...
Since a Hive Scum + their equipment is 90 credits (max) and Grub/Mad Dog are respectively 105 and 90 credits, I don't think it will break anything to allow it.
That may be more of an issue with Scabs (introduced in The Book of Peril) as he's also a Hive Scum and is 200 credits if you don't hire him alongside Kal Jerico.

I'd house-rule that the Fighting Pits give you 200 credits that you can only spend to hire up to 2 Hive Scums and their equipment (so if someone really wants to get Scabs, they can, but he'll come alone)

P.S. this thread should be tagged N18, not N17, I almost missed it because of that. I don't know if you can still change the tagging.
 

Chitriel

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Dec 11, 2017
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All the new Outlaw Dramatis Personae in Book of Judgement are also classified as Hive Scum.
So if an Outlawed gang has the Fighting Pits they also will have access to:
  • Cor ‘Two-Guns’ Coran (120 credits)
  • Estus Jet (130 credits)
  • Gaen ‘The Gunk Queen’ Gorvos (150 credits)
  • Jonny Razor (125 credits)
  • Psyreena Skar (105 credits)
  • Vunder Gorvos (145 credits)

This is of course only relevant if you are combining the Dominion and the Law and Misrule Campaigns.
 

TopsyKretts

Gang Hero
Dec 29, 2017
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All the new Outlaw Dramatis Personae in Book of Judgement are also classified as Hive Scum.
So if an Outlawed gang has the Fighting Pits they also will have access to:
  • Cor ‘Two-Guns’ Coran (120 credits)
  • Estus Jet (130 credits)
  • Gaen ‘The Gunk Queen’ Gorvos (150 credits)
  • Jonny Razor (125 credits)
  • Psyreena Skar (105 credits)
  • Vunder Gorvos (145 credits)

This is of course only relevant if you are combining the Dominion and the Law and Misrule Campaigns.
Worth to mension that Outlaw gangs can only hire Outlaw Hired Guns.

If I have understood correctly:
  • Hired Guns
    • Bounty Hunters
      • Law Abiding​
    • Hive Scum
      • Law Abiding​
      • Outlaw​
Dramatis Personae is what I would call a 'Special Character', a named unique character. This can be any of the above. There are no other options for Outlaw gangs than Outlaw Hive scum.
 

Petitioner's City

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Nov 15, 2017
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Any generic hired gun hired is automatically an outlaw - be it a bounty hunter, hive scum, or some homebrew hired gun.

You could argue that surely unsanctioned psychic Dramatis personae (ie thaetos) should be outlaws too, as that fits their fluff.
 
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Petitioner's City

Gang Champion
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P. 38, under effects of being an outlaw gang:

creenshot-2019-09-07-07-25-21-207-com-adobe-reader.png


Presumably not only the Guilders pay money for people's heads; but also remember as with venators, 'hive scum' and 'bounty hunter' are character creation tools, letting you create your own kind of character. Indeed, not every Dramatis personae bounty hunter is a "bounty hunter" as we tend to think of it - consider Slade or the Headsman.

I think on Twitch it has been repeatedly stated not to be too precious with what game names mean as such - these are tools for us to make our stories with.
 

TopsyKretts

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Thanks, I missed that one!

It is confusing that any Hired Gun is either "Bounty Hunter" or Hive Scum. Slade and the Headsman have the Bounty Hunter rules, but not strictly "bounty hunters" in the fluff.
 
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Thorgor

Of The YAQ
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Soooooo...
  1. Outlaw gangs can hire only Outlaw Hired Guns and Dramatis Personae
  2. Hired Guns hired by an Outlaw gang automatically gain the Outlaw special rule
  3. Outlaw gangs may not hire any Dramatis Personae that do not have the Outlaw special rule
What does rule #3 do that rule #1 doesn't already do?
When is rule #2 used if the only Hired Guns you can hire are those who alreay have the Outlaw special rule?

I get that the point is an Outlaw gang can only hire Outlaw Dramatis Personae, and that they can hire Outlaw generic Hired Guns (that are the exact same as the lawful ones, except for the Outlaw rule) but that's terrible writing (once again).
And even then, what's the point of having Outlaw Hired Guns if anyone can hire generic Hive Scums and Bounty Hunters and they just automatically align with the gang? The only time it would matter is if you hire a Outlaw Bounty Hunter, they come back for free thanks to their special rule, but your gang becomes lawful in between the two games. This seems ridiculously niche.
 
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spafe

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If there are any future ones that will only be lawful/outlaw (pitslaves, ratskins scouts, generic wyrds etc)
 

Thorgor

Of The YAQ
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Well, if it's an attempt at future proofing, it's a failed one (at least as far as Outlaw gangs are concerned).
With these rules, either a Hired Gun has the Outlaw special rule and a Outlaw gang can hire them, or they haven't and a Outlaw gang can hire them nonetheless (and they gain the Outlaw special rule). It's impossible to create a strictly Lawful Hired Gun within this framework without adding some extra rule.

The correct way to do it would have been to create Outlaw equivalents for the Hive Scum and Bounty Hunter (that would also have solved the issue of "Outlaw Bounty Hunter" being conceptually kinda weird, especially when only outlaw fighters can have a bounty on their head.)