Hi all - just wondering if anyone has played much with rad phage in the new rules? On paper it feels like the extra flesh wounds on a 4+ alongside the way that incremental SI also gives flesh wounds makes rad phage better, maybe rad weapons are even viable......but not sure if it plays out that way in the table. Any experience?
N18 Rad phage thoughts in new rules?
- Thread starter Tk421wayayp
- Start date
I am a proponent of rad weapons. They always have been a attrition weapon and with the new rules they still are.
The changes to seriously injured rules basically made most weapons better and rad weapons benefit. The only weapons that are not affected are web weapons
Web was a overpowered trait and instead of making it less useful GW decided to make every other weapon better...
Rad phage hands out flesh wounds just more effectively than standard weapons like it is supposed to.
These weapons are always viable you just need to know what to expect. Take the rad gun and rad cannon the "common" rad weapons. They are in effect two weapons for the price of one. Firstly they are a S2, meh, AP -2, pretty good, weapon. They are either a Template or Blast with thier targeting perks. Secondly, and far more importantly, they have a 50% chance of handing out a flesh wound to anyone under the template/blast regardless of if the cannon hit or if they were wounded to start with and the Rad phaged trait itself ignores any armour save they have. There is a good chance that a opponent will loose a point of toughness without a save. Aside from goliaths and ogryns on average the typical fighter has T3. If they are now T2 as a result of a rad cannon hit then those little S3 pew pew lasguns your teks and subteks are sporting are suddenly much more threatening now wounding on 3s. A cheap hot shot pack and they now wound on 2s.
A cheap rag gun or cannon, and they are compared to the other tactically similar options the radgun analogue is the flamer not the plasma gun, and your whole gang suddenly becomes nastier.
The changes to seriously injured rules basically made most weapons better and rad weapons benefit. The only weapons that are not affected are web weapons
Web was a overpowered trait and instead of making it less useful GW decided to make every other weapon better...
Rad phage hands out flesh wounds just more effectively than standard weapons like it is supposed to.
These weapons are always viable you just need to know what to expect. Take the rad gun and rad cannon the "common" rad weapons. They are in effect two weapons for the price of one. Firstly they are a S2, meh, AP -2, pretty good, weapon. They are either a Template or Blast with thier targeting perks. Secondly, and far more importantly, they have a 50% chance of handing out a flesh wound to anyone under the template/blast regardless of if the cannon hit or if they were wounded to start with and the Rad phaged trait itself ignores any armour save they have. There is a good chance that a opponent will loose a point of toughness without a save. Aside from goliaths and ogryns on average the typical fighter has T3. If they are now T2 as a result of a rad cannon hit then those little S3 pew pew lasguns your teks and subteks are sporting are suddenly much more threatening now wounding on 3s. A cheap hot shot pack and they now wound on 2s.
A cheap rag gun or cannon, and they are compared to the other tactically similar options the radgun analogue is the flamer not the plasma gun, and your whole gang suddenly becomes nastier.
Assuming that your group does not allow weapon swapping as is written in the rules rad weapons allow the teks and subteks without Tools of the Trade who start with the humble lasgun to still pack a punch with thier weapon at later campaign levels.
Team work makes the archeotek dream work.
Team work makes the archeotek dream work.
A template and a 5" pie plate are also very nice for pinning; this definitely fills a gap in VS capabilities.
I'm not saying it's the most competitive option, but it's not terrible.
I'm not saying it's the most competitive option, but it's not terrible.
I think I like my rad cannon so far...... previous gang had more straight up high damage weapons, so this is a bit if a climb down......but looking at it objectively in one game if kept a group of enemies pinned down who would have otherwise shot my flank to pieces (and as a result also flesh wounded one guy to death) and in another game took a ganger straight out of action, so it has actually done good work! I think I'm going to commit to rad, just a question if whether I go rad gun or rad beamer......I'm thinking beamer due to range and not having the risk of needing to get a slow VS body in to template range......
You opponents will come to you. Shooting gangs tend to fold in close combat so others will close the distance with you. Therefore they are running towards your rad gun. And melta...
Think of it this way for the cost of a flamer, which is the GW standard for close quarters fire fights you get a radgun and four lasguns. Yes you are a little slower but you have more guns to shot them with before they get to you.
As by far the most shooty gang Van Saar have no problem pinning anyone.
More importantly. Mmm pie...
Blast placement to weed out those hiding in cover is also very handy for me, the gangs i play against hug cover like mad! 3 inch blast isn't quite enough to get them sometimes, 5 inch does it nicely!
I like that way if looking at the rad gun, although it begs the question - why not a hand flamer for 75? S3 Vs rad gun S2 and when blaze procs it's potentially better than rad phage all things considered......the -2 ap on rad gun is nice though
Why not both? Hand Flamers are great on Teks and (especially) Neoteks. Give the Rad Gun or Rad Cannon to the Specialist.
Blaze is nice but a 10 credit hazard suit negates it. Ok it counters Rad phage as well but at least the rad gun ignores the meagre 6+ armour save with its -2 AP.
Also it is more reliable than he hand flamer with its 4+ ammo roll over the hand flamers 5+. The last thing you need is your template weapon jamming when that nasty hungry hungry hippo is a hop step and jump away.
The hand Flamer in other gangs is pretty good but check out your rules for the body glove. Your entire gang is immune to Rad phage so assuming you get them actual armour friendly fire is less of a worry. A S2 hit is not that bad and ignoring the potential flesh wound on top helps. Consider this, a combat monster is engaged or close to your gangers. Throw down a rad cannon shot on them. Everyone under the 5"blast pie plate is pinned suffers a S2 Ap -2 hit and non Van Saar have a 50% chance of suffering a flesh wound on top. Assuming the enemy does not have spring up or nerves of steel etc, they are now pinned thus can no longer charge, suffer a minor hit but with good AP and could even suffer a flesh wound on top.
Your combat dweebs can now slink away relatively Scot free.
A bit callous but I use bonepickers as ablative armour...
But.....can't other gangs buy the undersuits too? I know many players that make that a priority for the easy armor upgrade.....that really crushes the rad weapons.
Armored bodygloves (what VS automatically get) are different from armored undersuits. Armored undersuits do not negate rad weapons like the VS bodyglove, but hazard suits do. Unfortunately, since hazard suits are armor and you can only have one type of armor, the best save you are looking at with a hazard suit is a 5+ (with an armored undersuit) while being immune to Rad/Blaze, where the VS can bump their save up by adding on any other armor they want their bodyglove- from a 5+ with flak/4+ with mesh/etc...
so all this time i have thought the armored undersuit negated rad phage.....i have cheated myself of victory then....many times, ugh!
Yep the only defence against Rad Phage is being Van Saar.
Ok a STR 2 hit on its own is not great but if your opponents go hazard suit and armoured undersuits to negate the rad phage trait and get a half way decent save of 5+ they end up spending 40 credits to end up with no armour save thanks to AP -2. If they add ablative armour to it that's is 60 credits to defend against a STR 2 hit.
So you end up spending enough credits for a new ganger to defend against a STR 2 hit. With the new rules in Serious Injuries and Flesh wound I believe that Rad weapons are now top tier weapons for van Saar. A plasma or melta something to back them up and pull of that one hit kill on a stimmer you need now and then and rad spam can now be a real thing.
With the new flesh wounds I can easily see a rad gun being a worthy back up gun for your plasma gun sniper. Hit hard at range with plasma and when the enemy gets close they should have flesh wounds aplenty at least if your shooting works and are now extra vulnerable to the isotope spewing weapon.
The cheap Rad Grenade is now good and cost effective too.
The cheap Rad Grenade is now good and cost effective too.
Rad Gun and Plasma Gun on the same fighter? If I'm spending those kind of creds arming one fighter I'm giving her a LasCannon and Suspensor.
I'd be more prone to put that Rad Gun with someone who has a cheap weapon and a middling (for VS, anyway) BS. It could go ok on a Specialist with a Lasgun. If someone gets that close to one of my Plasma Gunners, I'm going to want to take advantage of that sweet (and borderline broken) +2 to hit bonus at short range anyway.
I'd be more prone to put that Rad Gun with someone who has a cheap weapon and a middling (for VS, anyway) BS. It could go ok on a Specialist with a Lasgun. If someone gets that close to one of my Plasma Gunners, I'm going to want to take advantage of that sweet (and borderline broken) +2 to hit bonus at short range anyway.
I tend to only have one heavy weapon champion. I keep the others and boss with special weapons or pistols to keep them moving.
I might only actually put both guns on a fighter if super rich and fancy a laugh. Scarce occasionally trips up the plasma gun at times
The template function on the Rad gun could be nice down a corridor though.
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