N18 Raise the alarm - Now what?

Valar

Juve
Feb 22, 2018
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Hi everyone, I was looking for some help with how Sentries play.

I’m ok with how sentries activate, move and spot. I’m just confused on what happens once the Alarm has been raised.

In our game today one Sentry had a Ready counter when it was the defender’s turn to activate, so the alarm was raised.

“Once the alarm is raised, the sentries rules are no longer used and the defender’s fighters follow all the normal rules”

What happens to the rest of the defender’s gang since they don’t have Ready markets?

Do you activate the Defender with a ready marker, then ALL of the remaining attackers? With no interference since the Sentry rules are over, no defenders can gain a Ready marker from shooting or spotting.

Do you end that round and start a fresh one with everyone Ready?

We had a few people reading it and couldn’t see what the actual book wanted us to do.

Thanks for any help!
 

TopsyKretts

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Dec 29, 2017
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Once the alarm is raised, sentries become ready. They just didn't bother writing it down.

It's funny how they specify what happens when both players roll the same result when a sentry is activated. They had something in mind when explaining the outcome, but it is no difference than if the defender rolls highest. Basically therr are only 2 outcomes:

-attacker rolls highest, attacker moves amd faces the sentry.
-otherwise defender moves and faces the sentry.

It gets ridiculous when the sentries fail bottle test before even aware there are enemies. Even if the alarm is raised, they still have HIGH probability of bottle after the very first casualty. Receiving reinforcements does not help against bottle tests.

In general, the whole sentry + reinforcements rules are shoddy.
 
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enyoss

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Do you activate the Defender with a ready marker, then ALL of the remaining attackers? With no interference since the Sentry rules are over, no defenders can gain a Ready marker from shooting or spotting.
RAW it’s this I’m afraid. And as you point out, if it happens early in the round the attacker can just go at the defender with their remaining activations.

Your second option of ending the end round immediately is a decent fix I think.

Overall the sentry rules are dire. My favourite quirk is that sentries can be put on fire, put themselves out and just stand up go back to patrolling, never once having had a chance of being alerted. It’s the tabletop equivalent of sneak attack in Skyrim, where an NPC with an arrow in their head from a sneak attack would say “who’s that? Where are you?! Oh, must be nothing...” and go back to what they were doing before still with an arrow in their head. And it’s just as idiotic.
 
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Nucit

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Dec 18, 2017
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....,if it happens early in the round the attacker can just go at the defender with their remaining activations.
Your second option of ending the end round immediately is a decent fix I think.

Overall the sentry rules are dire. ...
I think you're refering to the old version of the Sentry rule. In the new version (hard cover book) it's harder to justify the defender not being able to activate his fighters after the alarm is raised. The wording rather implies they all get ready marker. Whish is quite a change indeed. But the issue stands, it has not been described explicitly what happens. However, the round ending is not an option by raw or rai.

And overall, the rules for how the attacker is spotted are ridicules. You could stand rigth in front of sentry and not been spoted, if the sentry is just not been activated by chance. Why don't they all spot at the end of an attacker activation? Not saying the should all move though, just all spot.
 

enyoss

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I think you're refering to the old version of the Sentry rule. In the new version (hard cover book) it's harder to justify the defender not being able to activate his fighters after the alarm is raised. The wording rather implies they all get ready marker. Whish is quite a change indeed. But the issue stands, it has not been described explicitly what happens. However, the round ending is not an option by raw or rai.
No I mean the newer N18 compilation version.

It says that "Once the alarm is raised, the sentry rules are no longer used and the defender's fighters follow all the normal rules."

Normal rules state that you get ready markers at the beginning of the round in the Priority Phase, and once you're in the Action Phase you can activate fighters who have ready markers. So once the alarm is raised the defenders behave as normal, i.e. they can be activated if they have ready markers, but nothing says they are given one unless they spotted an attacker.
 

Nucit

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Dec 18, 2017
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No I mean the newer N18 compilation version.

It says that "Once the alarm is raised, the sentry rules are no longer used and the defender's fighters follow all the normal rules."

Normal rules state that you get ready markers at the beginning of the round in the Priority Phase, and once you're in the Action Phase you can activate fighters who have ready markers. So once the alarm is raised the defenders behave as normal, i.e. they can be activated if they have ready markers, but nothing says they are given one unless they spotted an attacker.
I agree, as to vague rules, it's a valid interpretation.
My point comes from the old rules actualy stating:
"Once the alarm is raised, the Sentry rules no longer apply. Any sentries who have gained a Ready marker keep it, and can be activated this round."

Thus here it was clear, now they removed it. And it's open to discussion why. I like to believe it was intentional to say they are active and ready as normal.
In line with TopsyKretts point:

Sentries are readied, according to my notes this was confirmed by GW somehow online somewhere... I guess it was obvious in their mind so no point writing it down?
 
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enyoss

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I agree, as to vague rules, it's a valid interpretation.
My point comes from the old rules actualy stating:
"Once the alarm is raised, the Sentry rules no longer apply. Any sentries who have gained a Ready marker keep it, and can be activated this round."

Thus here it was clear, now they removed it. And it's open to discussion why. I like to believe it was intentional to say they are active and ready as normal.
In line with TopsyKretts point:
I'd argue however that there are lots of areas where they removed explicit rules and the intention didn't change. For example, everywhere it cropped up in the N17 book(s) it used to say that fighters who flee the battlefield count as OOA for all intents and purposes for scenarios, but now that is only mentioned in one of the entries and doesn't appear in the rest. But as those entries don't say it doesn't work like that, and one entry says that it does, overall it does.

I'd say the explicit exception they added before was redundant given how the rules work RAW, so would understand if they said they removed it to streamline without changing the mechanic.

But if they've officially said online somewhere that the intention is that all the defenders get Ready markers when the alarm is raised then that's different. Note that "online somewhere" being someone quoting a response from the rules email account wouldn't be good enough for me - last time our group asked an N18 question to that account the response was for 40K rules not necromunda :rolleyes::D. Basically, most of the stuff coming from the email query account I've seen is just made up.

EDIT: and if all defenders get Ready markers when the alarm is raised, do defenders who already had one now get two?!
 

Kiro The Avenger

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That's because the FAQ isn't manned by the actual rules writers.
I've asked them a question about twin guns blazing and got the answer back "As the rules say, you resolve each hit separately"
The rules clearly don't say "resolve hits" they say "resolve attacks". So they obviously didn't bother reading the rule before quoting it to me.
 
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enyoss

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That's because the FAQ isn't manned by the actual rules writers.
I've asked them a question about twin guns blazing and got the answer back "As the rules say, you resolve each hit separately"
The rules clearly don't say "resolve hits" they say "resolve attackers". So they obviously didn't bother reading the rule before quoting it to me.
The response we got, which was about charging within 1" of enemy fighters you don't engage as long as you end up engaged with one enemy fighter - enemy fighters within 1" of your fighters count as being engaged and can attack you in addition to anyone you're engaged with. Basically, everyone has Versatile now according to the FAQ email peeps :D.

Didn't even address the question, it just threw in a new rule for something else entirely :D.
 
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melu_

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Mar 11, 2018
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And overall, the rules for how the attacker is spotted are ridicules. You could stand rigth in front of sentry and not been spoted, if the sentry is just not been activated by chance. Why don't they all spot at the end of an attacker activation? Not saying the should all move though, just all spot.
They do all spot though! The rules say that at the end of every defender activation you should "roll 2d6, if there are any attackers within that many inches of any sentry and within their vision arc, they may be spotted".
 

TeddyJ84

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May 27, 2019
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They do all spot though! The rules say that at the end of every defender activation you should "roll 2d6, if there are any attackers within that many inches of any sentry and within their vision arc, they may be spotted".
They also go on to say after that, if the attacker is within 3” or in the open “regardless of facing” they get spotted on a 2+. How Can facing be disregarded if the attacker has to be in their vision arc?
 
Having played as defender recently I struggle with the same questions, but I'll give a shot at RAI.

Spotting:
I'm starting to speculate if "within their vision arc" means "in potential line of sight"? In this case there is a chance to spot any model within 2d6 and "regardless of facing" makes a little more sense. I take it to mean that you can potentially spot ANY model within 2d6 who is not completely obscured by successfully rolling on the table.

Spotted-Alarm goes off:
If successful, the spotter gets a ready marker, turn goes to attacker. The attacker now have one chance of taking out the spotter who has a ready marker. If the sentry is not taken out in the attackers turn, the alarm goes off when its the defenders turn to activate again and all sentries are readied and can be moved in the current action phase....Assuming the alternating player activation is still in effect, the defender now has (n) number of models he can activate in the remainder of this turn, where (n) represents the number of remaining attackers. In that case it should be emphasised at the start of the game how many activations the defender has per turn which is usually (n)+1 after the final attacking model has activated.
OR
Spotted-Alarm goes off version 2:
The spotter gets a ready marker, turn goes to attacker. Then, if the spotter is still alive after the attackers turn, alarm goes off, all defending models, regardless of how many sentry activations has occured so far, gets to activate in alternating order with the remaining attackers in the current turn. In this version, spotting towards the end of the turn is better for the defending player as the attacker most likely have spent all or most of his activations and the readied defenders can initiate a one-sided massacre.