N18 Regarding xenos tech - the illegal trading post

Jun 15, 2014
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I don’t know that Xenos weapons have ever been particularly hard to get on Necromunda. There was always an active Eldar and Xenos community in one of the smaller parts of the spire and the Spyrer tech always had Xenos implications to it.

The bigger issue with N18 is that rare weapons in general are just much easier to get than they used to be. If all this was in some sort of rare trade chart that you only rolled on once or twice after every game with a diminishing chance of this sort of tech it would be ok.

But that seems like a heretical idea to the current zeitgeist of wanting all the toys.
The eldar was a very special character, as the rules for playing orks, that came from a time when the "necromunda magazines" were more alike to a fanzine.
And the spyrers suits is true that GW retrocon to have TAU technology, but the spyrers themselves and their equipment are a matter of dark legends for the typical underhiver (their owner will be the equivalent of a crazy collector noble from other settings)

Having rules for xeno technology is not a problem, but making it available for isolated imperial citizens like underhive gangs is. For a campaign set in a space station hub, like precipice (from blackstone fortress game) where a lot of species meet will be a great addon.

It they want to expand Necromunda itself into something more diverse I think the perfect option is the Navis Mortis, a giant spaceship graveyard where crash smugglers ship shot down and alike.
There you can introduce a lot of weird equipment as treasures to find, xenos contamination (even orks) and even alien strike teams from a crashed ship or a rescue mission.
 

=Angel=

Ganger
Oct 3, 2016
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I think necromunda the game is perhaps diverging from necromunda the setting, or perhaps the necromunda setting is diverging from what we knew.
Lorewise, necromunda is a fight beneath a weapons factory that has an intergalactic bazaar somewhere on the roof. How hard it is for gangers to get plasmaguns and offworld items is a matter of context and perspective. Thousands, maybe hundreds of thousand of gangs from each house, but we're hearing about the ones who don't have to make do with secondhand lasguns.
 

TopsyKretts

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Dec 29, 2017
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My copy came today, and I was laughing like a lunatic the whole way through the new equipment/wargear section.

There were *SO* many players who hated the new ruleset for giving gangers Tactical Marine-tier equipment... I wonder how they feel now that a fighter can out-gear, like, a Chapter Master.
Yes exactly! Space Marines used to be a controversial topic. Now we can use WYSIWYG Terminators in Necromunda! 2+ save with 5+ invulnerable save, thunder hammers, (storm) shield, auto cannon, lightning claws, storm bolter, heavy flamer, power fist, power sword, power axe....
 

EAfirstlast

Ganger
Aug 31, 2017
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I don't think inquisition or gaunt books are valid comparisons. Inquisitor are above all imperial restriction and deal with people who broke them, and gaunt ghost fought in wars involving chaos and xenos mercenaries, so of course will contact with tainted artifacts or technology from other races.

But Necromunda is a very regulated imperial setting where everything entering or exiting the planet is held very tight by authorities. Of course will be back market but is near impossible to involve xenos weapons other than a near legendary item bought in secret by collectors nobles. This is another nail in the coffin for how GW is treating the setting.

But I am an old grumpy player who wants balance and coherence, we are outdated.
You want wht never existed, but your nostalgia insisted it did. Oldcromunda was no more balanced than newcromunda. Balance was never the point
 

TopsyKretts

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Old Necromunda had a lot more restrictions to prevent gangs spiralling out of control. Please compare max 2 heavies (champions), max 2 heavy weapons, max 3 fighters can carry special weapons. No multi-melta. No Thunder hammer. No plasma spam. No starting with BS2+.
 

TopsyKretts

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Do you remember last year when the cults were updated to version 2? They removed several of their unique weapons, probably because it became too complicated/detailed... Stuff like bone sword, lash whip, flensing claw etc.
 
Jun 15, 2014
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You want wht never existed, but your nostalgia insisted it did. Oldcromunda was no more balanced than newcromunda. Balance was never the point
I disagree. Starting with the same stats and access to the same weapon list is balance by definition.
Only differences between houses were skill access, that for sure were better option than others. But you cannot compare that with the free-for-all-combo-edition that is N18.
Other thing was playing against a more experience gang, but at least there was a underdog bonus system for lower rating gang to level faster.

Oldmunda was not perfect by any mean and N18 introduced great ideas, but for sure ORB was more fun to play against most of the things your opponent could build than the new one.
 
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Jacob Dryearth

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Sep 6, 2016
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I do wish they did a better job of unifying the campaign types or splitting up the content of every expansion into a la carte modules. Like, I want the Black Market and its items in my ongoing Dominion campaign, I don't want to have to learn a new campaign type and restart... time for more House Rules, I suppose...
Adding the Black Market to a Dominion campaign is as simple as allowing gangs to use the Black Market Trade action, with a -2 to all legality rolls as everyone is considered law abiding.
 

TopsyKretts

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Trading Post has Common and Rare (x) items. Black Market has Common, Rare (x) and Illegal (x).

If you seek Rare equipment, can you choose Common and Rare items from the Black Market as well? If you seek illegal equipment, can you choose Common and Rare items from the Black Market, or only Illegal items?

Is there any difference between Black Market and Trading Post? Or is the only difference Common, Rare (x) and Illegal (x)?
 

Jacob Dryearth

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Sep 6, 2016
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Trading Post has Common and Rare (x) items. Black Market has Common, Rare (x) and Illegal (x).

If you seek Rare equipment, can you choose Common and Rare items from the Black Market as well? If you seek illegal equipment, can you choose Common and Rare items from the Black Market, or only Illegal items?

Is there any difference between Black Market and Trading Post? Or is the only difference Common, Rare (x) and Illegal (x)?
I think the rules are quite clear that a fighter making a trade action either makes a roll for rarity or a roll for illegal, each having their own list of modifiers, and being mutually exclusive.

Edit: and neither action changes how common items are purchased.
 

TopsyKretts

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The available actions are "Seek Rare Equipment" and "Seek Illegal Equipment". The difference is between Rare or Illegal items. I guess the modifiers makes a difference between Trading Post and Black Market.
 
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Jun 15, 2014
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Me too, but seems a bit random that autocannons and power fist are black market items, but plasma cannons, heavy bolters or power swords are from legal trade post.
But anyway a +1 rarity is not a big deal.
 
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Ml2sjw

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Nov 25, 2017
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I suspect autocannons were initially left out as a design/game balance choice or simply that their wasn't an official model during the very brief (thankfully) no models no rules stage.

Adding it to the outlaw trading post is a neat way to provide fan service without adding an FAQ or creating some kind of living trading post document
 

Petitioner's City

Gang Champion
Nov 15, 2017
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Me too, but seems a bit random that autocannons and power fist are black market items, but plasma cannons, heavy bolters or power swords are from legal trade post.
But anyway a +1 rarity is not a big deal.
Andy explained in twitch for the book that it as a certain amount of gang violence is expected, even encouraged, by the hive masters. Therefore certain, even many, weapons would be part of that war situation. However, other weapons which don't suit the underhive and potentially threaten the balance of power, are harder to get. It's an explanation, and I'm paraphrasing, so it's not as nuanced as his words and poss misconstrues it.

Ultimately as with a lot of this; they are pushing and stretching the setting in new, more RPG sandbox, more narratively suggestive and complex, directions.

Necromunda isn't poverty porn anymore (if it ever was, since gangs could have plasma, melta and other special weapons easily), it is rather the economic variety of Thracian primaris or even Gudrun or that planet in Pariah - where wealth and petty kingdoms of the rebel lords of the underhive are possible evolutions for the scum, who skim weapons and gear from the trillions made on and traded on Necromunda. It's a mix of Gormenghast, Neo-Tokyo, Renaissance Rome or Venice, Ottoman Istanbul, scifi Shanghai, the wild west via Red Dead's imaginings, and a fantastical gang war LA or Sao Paolo - cities and landscapes from a dozen different time frames and narrative estimations - but in the 41st millenium
 
Jun 15, 2014
227
451
73
Almeria, Spain
I suspect autocannons were initially left out as a design/game balance choice or simply that their wasn't an official model during the very brief (thankfully) no models no rules stage.

Adding it to the outlaw trading post is a neat way to provide fan service without adding an FAQ or creating some kind of living trading post document
Its everything but neat. You can put in the book a section with an extension of the trading post and and section with a black market listings. It take literally almost no effort to do it and very little extra space. (space by the way is wasted repeating again all the basics for the new campaign mode that could be solved by a table of changes over dominion mode)


[/QUOTE]
Andy explained in twitch for the book that it as a certain amount of gang violence is expected, even encouraged, by the hive masters. Therefore certain, even many, weapons would be part of that war situation. However, other weapons which don't suit the underhive and potentially threaten the balance of power, are harder to get. It's an explanation, and I'm paraphrasing, so it's not as nuanced as his words and poss misconstrues it.
Not buying this, autocannons are not an acceptable weapon for gang warfare but plasma and lascannons are?
As I said is not a big deal for legal gangs to have a +1 rarity, but is simply lazy design to put all the new stuff in the same list of the new book.

I enjoyed Book of perils, but the more I read the book of judgement the more reminds me to the mess gang wars booklets were.


Necromunda isn't poverty porn anymore (if it ever was, since gangs could have plasma, melta and other special weapons easily), it is rather the economic variety of Thracian primaris or even Gudrun or that planet in Pariah - where wealth and petty kingdoms of the rebel lords of the underhive are possible evolutions for the scum, who skim weapons and gear from the trillions made on and traded on Necromunda. It's a mix of Gormenghast, Neo-Tokyo, Renaissance Rome or Venice, Ottoman Istanbul, scifi Shanghai, the wild west via Red Dead's imaginings, and a fantastical gang war LA or Sao Paolo - cities and landscapes from a dozen different time frames and narrative estimations - but in the 41st millenium
That have absolutely zero relation with I complain about. I do not see a negative thing that gangs are now better equip militias, but the way the new equiptment distinction seems random and the introduction of items IMHO not matching the setting at all (xenos and tainted most of them).
 
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Petitioner's City

Gang Champion
Nov 15, 2017
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Edinburgh, UK
That have absolutely zero relation with I complain about. I do not see a negative thing that gangs are now better equip militias, but the way the new equiptment distinction seems random and the introduction of items IMHO not matching the setting at all (xenos and tainted most of them).
@el_ojo_y_la_sombra, I think it does though. This is a quite heavy allusion to the mix of elements that was Confrontation, with a heavy dose of Inquisitor. It's the return of RPG sandboxes were gamemasters and players choose and select what to use to create their own campaign. It's also clearly written with inq28 in mind, and it's exotic relationship with newmunda.

As an arbitrator that's exciting, and it was Inquisitor which as a teen I ported over to my homebrewed, specialist games-fed necromunda ideas. Inquisitor was not just a game of inquisitors, it was a toolkit for creating gang wars or anything else too.

Ultimately change how rarity works and everything becomes harder to access - roll 1d6 and add the usual leader/champ/rep bonuses. Limit how many many rare or illegal items a person can buy to one. Etc. These attentuate necromunda more to a vision of poverty gang warfare.

Yet indeed the issue is vision. Andy et al are creating a fusion between games of the past (Confrontation, Necromunda 1&2, Inquisitor, the FFG books Andy and Owen wrote with others, and Inq28) and something new, one that is couched in their own sense of storytelling foremost (driving far deeper into an imperial world than ever done before, which naturally changes how we might perceive one), and also scale - a world of trillions, with thousands of ships arriving daily and trillions of trillions goods being imported and exported, over a bed of archaeotech and other dark secrets Gangers and explorers might find.

Thus contraband and eccentric weapons - definitely too easy to access, although splitting you between adding to rare trade or adding to illegal trade (since both are seperate post game actions). Finally using it does have strict gaming consequences - being declared outlaw, losing access to house lists, facing free bounty hunters in opponents' gangs, etc.

Something an arbitrator can add to :)
 
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almic85

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Oct 30, 2014
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@el_ojo_y_la_sombra while I agree that the above reasoning for not giving the autocannon special ammo cause it would be too powerful is a bit silly, but I still don’t see a big issue with adding Xenos weapons and chaos tainted versions of Imperial weapons.

Back in 2nd ed 40k that ORB/NCE is based on most armies shared the same weapon names and profiles, which is why they likely didn’t exist in ORB/NCE.

Eldar weapons (shirtless pistols, etc.) only came into existence in 1994 a year before ORB was released in 1995, so it’s possible they didn’t really have time to include them into the ORB.

Even in ORB all of the heavy weapons (except multi-melted) were common and accessible to all house gangs.

The only real difference was that in ORB special and heavy weapons were limited to leaders and heavies (max 3 per gang) while in the new version everyone can use special weapons, and you can have unlimited champions.