NCE Rescue Mission Alternative

p0dde

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In our group we have had some bad experiences with playing Rescue Missions, and we have decided to try something new, and made a table for resolving Captured Fighters in the post game. Before going into details with the table I think I should present some of the issues I have with the current system for dealing with Captured Fighters.

First off, I don't think the Rescue Mission is a good scenario. We have tried fixing it with some house rules, making it harder for the Attacker, and thereby more balanced, but it still isn't that fun to play. In my experience the Sentry build up, in both Rescue Missions and The Raid is bad game design, but I won't go further into details with that now.

Secondly, It doesn't always feel like an advantage to capture a fighter. The fact the the captured party can force its opponent to play the Rescue Mission next time they meet, sometimes feels like a punishment. If the defenders sucks at H2H, it can go really bad.

Thirdly, you have to wait till next time you play the same opponent to resolve the Captured Fighters destiny. When you play in a campaign with 5 other gangs, that can mean several months, depending on the match-up structure.

What this usually ends up with are the gangs making Ransom Deals, to avoid going through the Rescue Mission ordeal, and in a way that is fine, but if that is the end game, then we thought we might as well put it into a system.

Inspired by the Outlaw table, we made a 2D6 table, with a list of modifiers. At this moment the list of modifiers is very long, and once we start to use it it will probably undergo some changes. The rules are posted below, and can also be found on [LINK].

I would love to hear you comments on it, and how you think something like this would effect the game. Also, it this something that should be added to the Valut?

RESCUE CAPTURED FIGHTERS
In a post game where a fighter rolled a Captured Serious Injury, the fate of the prisoner is determined immediately after income has been worked out. The rescuers can choose to buy back the prisoner for a ransom. If they cannot afford it, or decline to pay, they can choose to attempt a rescue by rolling on the table below.

THE RANSOM
The price of the ransom is 1/3 of the prisoner's rating. The rescuers can choose to pay with credits, territories and/or items. Territories are valued at double the territory's max income (without special rules), and items are valued at normal prices, but they have to be accepted as payment as described below in 'Payment including items'. When trading with territories and items the value of the offer can be higher than the ransom value. In those cases the captors gains the leftovers.

Payment with only credits and territories: If the rescuer are able and willing to pay the ransom with any combination of credit and/or territories and the captors accepts the ransom, the prisoner is rescued and the captors gains the ransom. If the captors declines this offer: the negotiations break down: Roll immediately on the Rescue Table. Because of the greed and arrogance of the captors the rescuers get a +3 modifier on the roll.

Payment including items: The rescuers and the captors can negotiate back and forth in order to find agreement on what combination of credit, territories and items to use as payment. If they are able to agree on an offer, the prisoner is rescued and the captors gains the ransom. If they are unable to agree on an offer, the negotiations break down, and the rescuer roll on the Rescue Table, without the +3 'Greedy and arrogant' modifier.

RESCUE TABLE (2D6)
If the rescuers cannot afford to pay the ransom, or if ransom negotiations break down, roll 2D6 on the Rescue Table and add modifiers. If the rescuers does not care about the prisoner, they can choose not to roll on the table and automatically get a 'The Cage Was Empty' result.
  • -3 Booby-Trapped Prison-Cell: The prisoner is lost to the captors, and D3 random rescuers will miss the next game
  • 4-5 The Cage Was Empty: The prisoner is lost to the captors
  • 6 Man Down!: The prisoner is rescued, but one of rescuers got captured instead. Rescuers choose any fighter from their gang. This fighter is now captured and cannot be rescued, but will be sold off to slavers immediately
  • 7 Someone tripped the alarm, quick let's go!: The prisoner is rescued, but all equipment is lost to the captors, they can add it to their Stash
  • 8-11 Home, sweet home: The prisoner is rescued
  • 12+ While we are here, let's have a look: The prisoner is rescued, and while looking around the enemy camp, the rescuers secured some important plans. Next time the rescuers face the captors, they will automatically win the scenario roll. While in there they also steal 2D6 * 5 credits from the captors Stash if available.
RESCUE TABLE MODIFIERS
(each modifier can only be applied once)
  • +3: Greedy and arrogant captors
  • +3: If the prisoner is equipped with a Concealed Blade*
  • +1: If the captors does not allow trading of captured fighters.
  • +1: If the prisoner is a Ratskin.
  • +1: If the prisoner has any of the following skills: Quick Witted, Sneak Up, Juggernaut, Impetuous or Iron Will.
  • +1: If the prisoner is the leader of the gang.
  • +1: If the rescuers gang rating is 250 lower than the captors (during pre-battle sequence)
  • +1: If the rescuers controls any Vents or Tunnels.
  • +1: If the rescuers controls any silent weapons
  • -1: If the rescuers controls any noisy weapons
  • -1: If the rescuers gang rating is 250 higher than the captors (during pre-battle sequence)
  • -1: If the prisoner has any of the following injures: Head Wound, Leg Wound, Blinded in one Eye or Partially Deafened.
  • -1: If the prisoner is equipped with a move-or-fire Heavy Weapon.
  • -1: If the captors controls any of the following items: Bio-scanners, Infrared Goggles or Photo-visors
  • -3: If the captors uses a Screamer. The rescuers can counter this effect, by using a Stummer.
  • -3: If any of the fighters in the captors gang have hatred towards the prisoner.
  • -3: If the scenario in which the prisoner was captured, was a Shoot Out and/or Grudge Match.
*When using the Rescue Table special rules, the Concealed Blade does not award a special save against being Captured, but only the +3 modifier.
 
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Narwhal King

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This is a really cool alternative. I personally prefer the rescue mission, but this seems to work very well.
 
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Azzabat

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That's a well thought out solution.

If I'm just playing my regular opponent I enjoy playing the "Rescue" scenario, normally straight afterwards, but like yourself I find in a big(ger) campaign it can takes weeks/months to resolve the "captured" result.

I really like this and I think it'll work well in our next campaign systems. = )
 
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At first I was confused at the conundrum of time because if you play on Tabletop Simulator you can expect to attempt a rescue of your guy within a week at the latest, but then remembered that of course this doesn't apply IRL.

I do not like random tables, but I can see the need. The Sentry missions can be brutal and typically end up one-sided, this is agreed. But at this point, is the capture mechanic even necessary, could you just skew the injury table to avoid them altogether?
 

p0dde

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, is the capture mechanic even necessary, could you just skew the injury table to avoid them altogether?
Yes, that was also my first approach before I made the table. Something like replacing the 3/36 Captured results with one more dead, one more survives against all odds, and one more infected wound.

The 'problem' is that the Captured Fighter system goes really deep, and you would have to re-write / re-balance a lot of rules: Just from the top of my head: Shock Mauls, Web pistols, Concealed blades, the Escape Artist skill, Bounty Hunters and Pit Slave- and Redemptionist (and Chaos Cultists) -special rules, would need to be updated in some way. And altogether I feel like a lot of the fluff would suffer.

I get what you are saying about adding one more table, but so far it has been the best alternative I have been able to come up with. And remember you are already rolling on the Serious Injury Table when you get the captured result, so making another roll is still within the same framework.
 
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Azzabat

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I agree. Sometimes you can make a simple little change that has far reaching effects further down the line.

I like the idea of getting a captured result, and then rolling on the "Captured" table straight away.
 

Ben_S

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I assume 2-3 is actually '3 or less' and that 12 is actually 12+. Given the many possible modifiers though, this table could have special results for, e.g., 15 or 0.

Am I right in understanding that a ransom paid with credits and/or territories cannot be refused, but the captor can refuse when items are included? Given that items count at full price, this seems reasonable. I'd much rather have ten credits to spend as I like than be offered a stub gun (which I may have no use for and could only sell for 5). But then it seems a bit harsh that the rescuers get +3 for having an offer refused.

If someone's trying to game the system, I'd worry that they might deliberately try to make an offer that's likely to get refused. If there are no other modifiers, the +3 on that table seems to make a big difference (not least I think it would be a more than 25% chance of getting 12+).
 
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p0dde

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I assume 2-3 is actually '3 or less' and that 12 is actually 12+.
Correct!
Am I right in understanding that a ransom paid with credits and/or territories cannot be refused, but the captor can refuse when items are included?
No but thanks for pointing it out, this part needs a lot of clarification, something like:
1) Using only credits and territories. You make an offer and if the captors decline you get the +3
2) Using any combinations of payment that includes items. You negotiate with the captors and agree on a ransom. If the captors decline no modifier is added.
 
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Ben_S

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Ah, read too quickly. If items are included, the captors get to decide, first, whether the offer is valid and, second, whether to accept a valid offer. Obviously they would choose the offer to be invalid, rather than to decline a valid offer. But some of that could probably be a little clearer, if the rules were intended for others to follow (which isn't necessarily the case when writing one's own house rules).
 
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p0dde

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But some of that could probably be a little clearer, if the rules were intended for others to follow (which isn't necessarily the case when writing one's own house rules).
Indeed, and i have just re-written the paragraph into a 3 step process, which should make it easier to follow.
 
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Ben_S

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Definitely easier to follow now, though there's currently an incomplete sentence at the end of The Ransom section: "When trading with territories and items the value of the offer can"

Will this say something about whether the offer can be higher than the official price? I'm unclear at present on the specification that "items are value[d] at full prices"

Since the captor can choose whether to accept items, I'd have thought he could effectively offer to accept them at a lower value. For instance, suppose I need to pay 100 creds, but offer 75 and a lagun. Could my opponent say 'no, but I'll take 85 and the lasgun'? If so, he can effectively decide that he'll value the lasgun at 15.
 
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p0dde

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Will this say something about whether the offer can be higher than the official price?
(y)
I'm unclear at present on the specification that "items are value[d] at full prices"
It should probably be: "items are valued at normal price" Because items are half price when sold. it might be redundant/confusing?

Since the captor can choose whether to accept items, I'd have thought he could effectively offer to accept them at a lower value. For instance, suppose I need to pay 100 creds, but offer 75 and a lagun. Could my opponent say 'no, but I'll take 85 and the lasgun'? If so, he can effectively decide that he'll value the lasgun at 15.
The way I though about it, it is a strict rule, that you have to meet the 1/3 of the rating price, or you have to roll on the table, and you cannot go lower. But I can see good arguments for both cases. I think I will have to think about that some more.
 

Loriel

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I have played rescue mission only couple times. I have ended up playing other mission from captive audience document such as sell off, hand off, escape etc. I even decided to do my "own" edition to those scenarios as well some extra custom scenarios. I think capture scenarios are the best things in the game as they can get really emotional :D

Incase you are interested to see my work here is pdf http://loriel.kapsi.fi/NECR_BR/Rules/Captive Scenarios.pdf

I have used captive audience document as the core and added stuff to it. any changes or my custom rules are highlighter in blue
 
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Loriel

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I can personally suggest trying out my Running man- Alley Game even if there isn't spyrers in your campaign, it still reasonable assume that gangers sold the captive to the alley game slavers.
 
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I agree with all your criticisms of the Rescue scenario and think that captured fighters need to be dealt with in a far simpler manner.

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Roll a single d6, winner gets the captive to do with as they wish. Re-roll ties until you have a winner. Attackers must assign a minimum of 1 fighter to perform a rescue.

General Modifiers
+1 per ganger/ganger type assigned to rescue/guard duty (this model may not participate in other post battle activities, such as foraging, trading, or working territories. If they normally can't participate in such activities (such as non-outlaw juves/heavies, or hired guns, they may not be used as guards/rescuers). All Spyrers defend their lair.
+ 1D3 if the Leader is on guard/rescue duties. Again, the fighter is not allowed to do any other post battle activities, such as trading post runs. Spyrers do not have leaders for this purpose.
+1 per 200 points of higher gang rating
+1 if screamers or stummers are used by the appropriate side.

Defender Only Modifiers
+1 if Kalma has been used on more than half the captives.
+1 if the guard has infra goggles
+1 if the guard has a bio-scanner
+1 if the guard has an Archeotech Viewer

Attacker only Modifiers
+1 if the rescuer has infiltrate
+1 if the rescuer has a silent weapon
+1 if the rescuing gang pays 3d6 credits to locals for information on the location of the captive (May only be used once per rescue attempt).

Secretly record and total your modifiers on a slip of paper, and reveal your modifiers before you roll.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thoughts?
 
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Loriel

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not bad idea especially to resolve rescue attempt quickly and for any non essential gang members. Only thing I would still wish that there would be somekind of possibility for injuries or bigger backdraw than losing the captive.
 
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Ben_S

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I agree with @Loriel although I suppose the risk of injuries ought to affect both sides.

Also, if something like this were a rule, the re-roll ties bit would need to be clearer: do you apply all modifiers again or assume that they are now cancelled out and just go for a straight roll-off?
 
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p0dde

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@LordHelmawr, when you say "... in a far simpler manner", is that opposed to my suggested 2D6 table, just to make sure what you are saying =)

+1 per ganger/ganger type assigned to rescue/guard duty (this model may not participate in other post battle activities, such as foraging, trading, or working territories. If they normally can't participate in such activities (such as non-outlaw juves/heavies, or hired guns, they may not be used as guards/rescuers). All Spyrers defend their lair.
It would be interesting to see how this plays out, and how it would impact what people feel about capturing fighters in general. As I see it this modifier could impact both gangs negativly, because of limited resources in the post game . The upside for both teams are often so great that they would probably throw everything they have against freeing/owning the captured fighter, unless on of the gangs have very few fighters, or a substantially lower rating. Would that make it less attractive to use Web Pistols/Shock Mauls/Bounty Hunters, or how do you see it?

Also, what about ransoms, is that an option in your system?
 
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Jan 21, 2013
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@Loriel This new process is designed to avoid the possibility of further injuries, and simplify things that will only continue to complicate the post battle sequence. What would you do then, if another capture was rolled? The risk involved here is the loss of income against the chance of losing a fighter, since the rescuers/guards can't gain any income for your gang.

@Ben_S All modifier apply to the re-rolls. This can't result in a tie, so it won't, and you "paid" for your modifiers, so you get to use them.

@p0dde This is something I came up with a long time ago, back in the days of the ORB, because I saw the same problems with the rescue scenario mechanic as you did. This is just my take on how to deal with it.

As far as the +1 per ganger modifier to the rescue roll, you have hit exactly on the point behind that rule. How important is it for you to keep/free that captive? Is his value/equipment worth more to your gang than trying to earn their own income? What are you willing to pay/give up to keep/free him?

The rules I presented don't take precedence over anything else that has been written, they simply replace the rescue mission scenario with a different mechanic.

Concealed Blades still work.
Escape Artist still works.
Gangs still have to trade captives on a one for one basis before anything else happens.
Ransoms can still be paid, although I think that money should come out of the captives gangs gross income, and be added to the capture-rs gross income, for balance purposes (gotta pay to get Big Mikey back from the Night Snakes before you can worry about buying grox burgers for the gang).
Un-rescued captives can still be sold, put to work in a mine, turned in for bounties, redeemed, killed, eaten, etc.
Everything else works the same as it already does, you just do this roll if you decide diplomacy has failed and it's time to break your guy loose.

I think if these rules were used, we could still keep the rescue scenario as a playable mission, it would just be used when one gang gets to choose the scenario. Some random friend or contact of the opposing gang has been captured and needs to be rescued, instead of an actual gang member. Just give the victim basic ganger stats and play the scenario out as normal. The winner would get some kind of cool benefit, like +10 extra experience per fighter that didn't go out of action. You could justify having any gang be the rescuers. Spyrer Hunters rescuing a kidnapped member of their noble house, Scavvies and Ratskins rescuing an Underhive trader who sells them food or guns, Redemptionists rescuing a friendly preacher, the limit is your imagination.
 
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Ptrix

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if another capture was rolled?
With the NCE you treat an captured injury results as full recovery when playing a rescue, as you could end up in a never ending cycle of rescue missions!

I quite like the alternative rules you're suggesting as something that could be used if both players agree. Can see it being a tempting offer if you've just finished a lengthy game and have to pack up before going home.

I do quite like rescues though, and I'm always keen for an opportunity to get extra XP and income, despite the risk of serious injuries. I've never played one where the captured ganger wasn't rescued though, either when I'm rescuing or defending, or know of an occasion in the campaigns I've played in,