N18 Reworking how "Blaze" and "On fire" work

Kiro The Avenger

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Cardyfreak's suggestion does result in the same number of Blaze tokens (5) regardless of whether your hit by a hand flamer or a heavy flamer first.

Either you get hit by the hand flamer (3 tokens), then the heavy flamer (topped up to 5). Or you get hit by the heavy flamer (5 tokens), then the hand flamer (no extra tokens).
 

cardyfreak

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Yeah my take was no matter how much purgation shot you get hit with, it’ll never be anywhere near as bad as having a bath in promethium from a heavy flamer. But anything that cuts down rules bloat can only be a good thing, so a simpler rule wins every time.
But part of the rule I suggested is so no matter how many cheaper flame weapons you bring, you won’t get as big an effect as a heavy weapon. This means enemy fighters won’t spend as long on fire no matter how many times you hit them with cheap blaze weapons. If the blaze tokens can be topped up to 6 with any and all blaze weapons, Cawdor are still going to ruin you with cheap blaze template spam, and you’ll spend all your activation trying to put yourself out. If the max they can cause is 2 tokens with a blunderpole no matter how many times you’re hit, you’ve got a decent chance of recovering in one turn amd returning fire.

It is extra rules though.
 
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Thorgor

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Didn't realize it was always +X tokens with a maximum of X. But there is never any stacking then. It's equivalent to "set the number of tokens to X, unless the target already has more than X tokens".
 

cardyfreak

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If cheap weapons can stack to the point they’re the same as heavy weapons, what has the new rule really changed? Every weapon can cause maximum blaze, it’s basically the same as the old rule it just takes a few more shots. For Cawdor, this will be no problem with their excess of templates and superior activation numbers. And if this rule doesn’t have a meaningful impact on the potential for Cawdor to absolutely ruin you with cheap templates, is it really fixing anything worthwhile?
Also, there would be stacking it would just have hard caps, and you’d need progressively more expensive weapons to stack against each other to achieve max blaze rather than spamming cheap weapons to stack to the same effect.
 
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JawRippa

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If cheap weapons can stack to the point they’re the same as heavy weapons, what has the new rule really changed? Every weapon can cause maximum blaze, it’s basically the same as the old rule it just takes a few more shots. For Cawdor, this will be no problem with their excess of templates and superior activation numbers. And if this rule doesn’t have a meaningful impact on the potential for Cawdor to absolutely ruin you with cheap templates, is it really fixing anything worthwhile?
Also, there would be stacking it would just have hard caps, and you’d need progressively more expensive weapons to stack against each other to achieve max blaze rather than spamming cheap weapons to stack to the same effect.
I've also been thinking about the fact that with the rules above spam of cheap blaze > single good blaze like heavy flamer.
It could be fixed in alternative way. If you shoot at a target who is prone with a blaze weapom, it receives 1 less token than usual. So spamming weak blaze on the same target would result in little blaze markers gain with each shot after the first one.

Edit: I do like the idea of "set the number of tokens to X, unless the target already has more than X tokens"
 

spafe

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Might make the heavy flamer actually have a role as well which is nice (not good, but at least it does something over other stuff). Only slight annoyance here is having to go through every weapon with blaze and assigning it a value
 
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JawRippa

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Currently my group is finishing their campaign, and I'm planning on taking reworked blaze for a spin during next one.
After rereading the thread, I think that @cardyfreak suggestion is the one that would keep spammy blaze weapons in check while not overencumbering rules or making cheap blaze weapons useless. "set the number of tokens to X, unless the target already has more than X tokens". For the sake of being able to balance individual items, I'll keep it "Blaze(X)". General guideline would be:
  • Incendiary ammo is 1 or 2 tokens
  • Handflamers, grenades, exterminator catridges, melee with blaze are 2 tokens
  • Flamers are 3 tokens
  • Heavy flamers are 5 tokens
My only concern is that extinguishing oneself should not be too complicated, since the rule is already complex by itself, it is better to K.I.S.S. If you fail your Cool, then you run around flailing and waste your activation. If you pass your Cool, then you act as normal, and have access to Extinguish fire (Simple) action, which removes D3 blaze tokens from active or engaged fighters and D6 blaze tokens from prone fighters. Having a friendly fighter nearby allows rerolls.
What do you think of this summary?
 
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Vonvilkee

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Currently my group is finishing their campaign, and I'm planning on taking reworked blaze for a spin during next one.
After rereading the thread, I think that @cardyfreak suggestion is the one that would keep spammy blaze weapons in check while not overencumbering rules or making cheap blaze weapons useless. "set the number of tokens to X, unless the target already has more than X tokens". For the sake of being able to balance individual items, I'll keep it "Blaze(X)". General guideline would be:
  • Incendiary ammo is 1 or 2 tokens
  • Handflamers, grenades, exterminator catridges, melee with blaze are 2 tokens
  • Flamers are 3 tokens
  • Heavy flamers are 5 tokens
My only concern is that extinguishing oneself should not be too complicated, since the rule is already complicated, it is better to K.I.S.S. If you fail your Cool, then you run around flailing and waste your activation. If you pass your Cool, then you act as normal, and have access to Extinguish fire (Simple) action, which removes D3 blaze tokens from active or engaged fighters and D6 blaze tokens from prone fighters. Having a friendly fighter nearby allows rerolls.
What do you think of this summary?
I like but would suggest willpower test instead of cool. Mostly to encourage needs of another stat partly cuz cool is so overused.
 
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