N18 Roaming Horror+Take Down (delaque skill)
- Thread starter paxmiles
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I cheaped out and gave him a plasma pistol (and no armor). I regret those choices....He died to a shotgun before he got a chance to shoot anything...
The rule as written for escaping says they only roll on that table if the "suffered a capture result (55-56)". With take down they did not.
In fact with take down you could argue it's in addition to rolling on the serious injury chart for going out of action.
Are you arguing for or against take down? I thought you were arguing against me, but now it seems like you might be pushing for take down.
In the old system, the escape roll would only apply if the target had a skinblade. Since this ability specifically doesn't mention an interaction with skinblades, I feel it's safe to say the intentions are clearly that the escape roll is intended since the skinblades presently modify the escape roll. I guess that's RAI, but I think it's pretty clear.
I do agree with the others that the capture rules aren't fun. But it's also not fun for the other gangs to say they get 6 skills because theirs are fun, but you only get 5 because we don't likr your 6th. If they didn't want me to play this gang, it shouldn't have been an option before I started buying models... And if the regular capture results are accepted fun of the game, can't see why take down would be especially upsetting.
Anyway, my post was mostly aimed at roaming horrors because I don't have to be "that guy" if I can take down roaming horrors. And those genestealers are nasty...would be nice to recoop some of my losses from when they show up and effortlessly kill 3 gangers.
I'm arguing that it's ambiguous how it works with the current capture rules.
You're going to need to talk to your arbiter here. I don't think you can get an answer here as everyone's interpretation is as good as the next persons with regards to how take down works now.
The unfortunate reality is that most of the skills in this game are "bad", with a handful of usable to good ones.
The one big worry would be if the arbitrator decided to do a "Malstrain Genestealer" rescue mission on behalf of the roaming horrors....
You understand that Take Down is written for another version of the game? That Capture rules changed and broke a lot of existing rules? The RAW you apply isn't what it was intended for. Take Down wasn't written for the new Capture rule.
You can see all the consequences of the N23 rulebook here: https://yaktribe.games/community/threads/collected-errors-typos-in-n23-rulebook.13231/
What about Restraint Protocol? Water Guild? There are so many rules that break over the years when stuff change. You can't always just apply RAW across versions and say that works RAW or even RAI.
I think besides all this talk of rules, the intention is clearly to capture fighters from other gangs, not to capture NPCs from special scenarios. That being said, if it's fun and all agree, go for it.
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The entire house of shadows is "written for another version of the game," but it's also considered a current book that's compatible with the current ruleset. So I don't really see your point. The whole book is either compatible or it isn't. There's an FAQ and this isn't in there, so it's regarded officially as okay as written, until they FAQ it otherwise or release a replacement book.
You're cherry picking what you think shouldn't be allow. If I can use the delaque found in house of shadows, then I can use the delaque found in house of shadows.
I feel like this topic has looped enough times. We don't agree, and that's fine.
My main point was that I found this rules interaction amusing.
I also like that my point allows Take Down to be used in an admittedly unintended way (because I'm under the impression roaming horrors are a new addition to the rules, not because there's anything wrong with my read of take down), but in one that allows the skill to be used without being "that guy."
I'd even go so far as to argue that groups should houserule the capture rules to *only* work for roaming horrors, since it would be more fun for everyone, and while it may go against the intention of roaming horrors, I think it allows the capture rules to be used in a way that's more tolerable for all players.
And, as mentioned, it doesn't really matter if they are RAW, RAI or houserules, since the arbitrator's approval is what matters.
Things aren't binary like this. As far as I know, this is the only thing that didn't get updated or FaQ'd for the newer core rulebook in the house of shadows book. (There are probably more, but my level of awareness is just about this one).
Necromunda isn't a GW flagship product. While it's getting updates (in the form of more books/stuff to buy
), which we appreciate, it doesn't get nearly as much attention as 40k or AoS.For example, Delaque still do not have a unique vehicle, and there is no sign of them getting one. I don't have a horse in that race as I don't enjoy the concept of the Ash Wastes expansion, but they've had years to make one.
I invite you to temper you expectations when it comes to the "rules as written" in Necromunda. Some rules are clear, other rules aren't (such as Take Down). The rules are likely written by multiple people over multiple years with little or no knowledge of other books/works written by other people. One fuzzy rule in a "current book" doesn't invalidate the whole book.
Nobody is saying Delaque book isn't valid or that they don't have all 6 skills. And criticism others made about negative playing experience doesn't apply when used on NPC as you point out. Can only fully agree with @HugeSamples here that rarely will a book be 100% compatible or 0% compatible. Even the outdated books got some compatible parts in them. And books as recent as HoS got some incompatible parts. Now for this specific case RAW may accidentally work across versions. So you can always beat on that drum. But really, it's not that simple. It's complicated and there are no official answer. Welcome to Necromunda.
In case it's unclear, I've already decided this topic is over. We've been looping for a bit now. I disagree, you disagree, no need to keep going.
I don't mind tangents.
Delaque has psychic powers. Like a lot of psychic powers. 18 psychic powers. Nobody else has that. I think delaque also has more exotic beasts than most factions, too. And the gang skills, including take down, are all kinda oddball ones with interesting applications.
I don't mind tangents.
I think that one makes sense. I don't feel like them having dedicated vehicles is particularly fluffy. Even weaponry wise, they barely have any unique weapons.
Delaque has psychic powers. Like a lot of psychic powers. 18 psychic powers. Nobody else has that. I think delaque also has more exotic beasts than most factions, too. And the gang skills, including take down, are all kinda oddball ones with interesting applications.
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