N18 Roll a natural 1 on a D3

[TopsyKretts]

What is the probability of rolling a "natural 1" on a D3?

Examples: Stimmer's Combat Chems Stash & Wrecker's Jump Booster.

Bonus question: Can you roll a "natural 6" on a D3?

 

[reough]

Regardless of what we all think/agree/disagree the answer is, I think it needs to be cleared by specialist games as to what they intended, both interpretations have merit given that it's very clearly a six-sided-die based system. It would have been easy to side step by phrasing it as "a 1/3 chance of failure (or 1/6 )

 

[Aulenback]

It would have been easy to side step by phrasing it as "a 1/3 chance of failure (or 1/6 )

Or just not by using the word "natural," which GW repeatedly in these books uses to mean "unaltered, before any modifiers or math," assuming they mean a 1/3 chance.

 

[Jembo17]

In our games we use a D6 for any D3 roll.

If you roll 5-6 = counts as 3.
If you roll 3-4 = counts as 2.
If you roll 2 = counts as 1.
If you roll 1 = counts as 1, and is also a 'natural 1'.

I do agree that GW could do with cleaning up the text surrounding it though.

 

[TopsyKretts]

Yup, that's how I use it too, but I've written it as such in my rules compilation. It is however less of a D3 and more of an unevenly distributed D4 (4 separate outcomes). It also leaves less chance of failure, which overall could lead to a better gaming experience (less disappointment).

 

[Caledore]

Bringing this over from the Sump because it's relevant:

To add fuel to the fire... What's the point of making the failure happen on a "natural" 1 in these cases? Is there anything that can modify the combat chem stash or jump pack rolls? If there are no mechanisms in the game that modify these rolls, what is the point of including the word "natural"? One explanation that doesn't render "natural" meaningless would be that it refers to the "1 on the D6 used as a D3" outcome. Otherwise the rule should just specify the bad result happens if the player rolls a 1 on a D3.

I'm not sure why they would specify a "natural" 1 if they meant any result of 1 on the d3.

(Combat Stimms are a flat +1d3, so there's no additional modifiers)

I suppose they could have been clearer if they say it provides "1d6 / 2 attacks (rounded up)" but for whatever reason that sounds so awkward to me. Maybe I'm too used to '1d3' being the same thing as that in many game systems.

 

[Thorgor]

I'm not sure why they would specify a "natural" 1 if they meant any result of 1 on the d3.

Future-proofing and consistency. All 'critical failure' rules use 'natural 1' as a trigger so it would be weird to use something else here. Also, just because there is no way to modify this roll at the moment doesn't mean they can't add one later.
The "natural rolls" rule doesn't presume the use of a six-sided die. It just tells you to ignore modifiers.

It's too bad there is no rule that triggers on a natural 2 or 12 for a 2D6 roll. That would end this debate quickly.

 

[Galtarr]

Combat stimms are +d3 Attacks. Charging grants +1 A as does dual wielding. I'd call those modifiers.

Likewise there are other things that add to Charge distance which 'could' be treated as modifiers.

Upon reflection, I think they meant the weird D4 as @TopsyKretts states. However I think that's a poor design choice as it's not intuitive when people read D3.

Better to have a D6 table. Personally I'd have written it for Wreckers/Stimmers as
1: Failure
2-3: +1 Mv/A
4-5: +2 Mv/A
6: +3 Mv/A you hit the jackpot your opponent is sliced bread.

Clearly not D3. 1 is clear fail, 6 is clear awesome. We know how that works. Doesn't even need a table you could sum that in a listed sentence.

 

[Vonvilkee]

It is the 16% chance of failure.

Page 18 dice in the dark uprising rule book (pretty sure the other one had similar wording).

You don't roll a D3 you roll a D6 and divide the result therefore the natural 1 is the printed one not the two halved to one.

 

[Ben_S]

You can roll a d6 and halve the result, but I don't think you have to do things this way do you? (Correct me if I'm wrong, as I don't actually play N17+)

Since someone could roll a 'proper' d3, on which there would be no distinction, it would be any 1 (33% chance) in my book.

'Natural' or 'unmodified' only means ignoring +/- (e.g. when a 2 is reduced to 1).

 

[Thorgor]

You can roll a d6 and halve the result, but I don't think you have to do things this way do you? (Correct me if I'm wrong, as I don't actually play N17+)

That's how the rules instruct you to do it, yes.
However, I disagree that the actual method used to physically emulate a D3 changes anything to the 'natural' result you get. A D3 can only roll natural 1, 2 and 3.

 

[Chaos Isaac]

The game is written from the perspective you're using D6s. A natural 1 is a 1 on a d6.
Anything else is inane nonsense that I won't personally tolerate. This is where people end up being frustrating with no sense interpretations with little ground to stand on.
If you roll a 2 on a d6, your booster gives you that +1.

 

[Punktaku]

If, um, you can roll natural 1 and natural 6 on a d3, isn’t that sorta the same as, like, rolling a d5? Failure, 1, 2, 3, Critical

 

[El Torro]

When I first read the rule I immediately jumped to the conclusion that by using the word “natural” they meant a 1 in 6 chance of failure. Seemed obvious to me.

Not all the internet seems to agree with me though, so yet another thing that GW need to clarify.

 

[Scavvierising]

This is how GW define a D3 in the rules of the game.

"D3 - The rules might also call for a D3 to be rolled, but an actual three-sided dice is not necessary. To roll a D3, roll a D6 and halve the result, rounding up."

To me the not necessary. Implies a suggestion on how to roll a D3. Not an instruction on how a D3 must be rolled. Although to be fair it is not clear and I'm sure many will have the opposite opinion.

Also I read it that it is not considered a roll until the halving and rounding up has occurred.
Again not really clear.

1/3 for me.

 

[Orngog]

"Anything else is inane nonsense that I won't personally tolerate. This is where people end up being frustrating with no sense interpretations with little ground to stand on."

I have to say, this kind of attitude is not conducive to a fun gaming experience. One thing the rulebooks do make clear is how to handle disputes, and this is clearly going against that.

But then I think nat 1 on a d3 is a 1 or two. And in all fairness I'm an orlock player, so it's not as if I'm trying to game the system.

So yeah, clarification needed please GW!

 

[Malevolent Pink Cat]

Got to be 1/3.

A roll of a "natural" one on a "true" D3 is a 1/3 chance.

If you use a D6 to emulate a D3, there should still only be three possible roles (1, 2 and 3).

If that wasn't the case, anyone packing an actual D3 (which of course is perfectly legal) would end up with a better chance of getting a "natural" 1, which can't be right.

Everywhere else, "natural" is just meant to mean unmodified. I don't see why it would be different for a D3 roll.

 

[Kiro The Avenger]

I think it's 1/6, I hadn't even considered this could be a debate.

The rules are written with the rules in mind. D3s in GW games have always been a halved D6, the natural is only relevant when you consider that.

Sure, this could be a unique example of GW future proofing, but I doubt it.

 

[Ben_S]

The game is written from the perspective you're using D6s. A natural 1 is a 1 on a d6.

But that's a natural 1 on a d6 though, not a natural 1 on a d3. If they meant only when it's a 1 on the d6, then they should have said that.

 

[Scavvierising]

When you modify a D3 roll. For example D3+1. You add 1 to a number between 1 and 3. Why? Because a D3 can only roll between 1-3. A D3 has not been rolled until after the halving and rounding up.


I can totally imagine GW intending this to be 1/6 though. And that they have just bolloxed up as usual.

Hopefully we get a FAQ around Jan and they fix it quickly. Whatever the answer.