N17 Rosie's Runners - 1000cr escher

Discussion in 'Gangs & Loadout' started by The_A_Drain, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. The_A_Drain

    The_A_Drain New Member

    Heya guys,

    I'm looking to get some feedback on a reasonably no-frills Escher gang, the main goal is to focus on pinning my opponent to screw with their maneuverability while maximizing my own in order to take out high priority threats in Close Combat.

    I had some success with an earlier version of this (less models, more expensive junk like the Chem Thrower) that tabled a couple of Goliath players with relative ease (admittedly a lot of that was down to lucky dice rolling)

    The plasma pistol is negotiable as are the Juves. The plasma pistol was originally an Autopistol but it left me with 40 creds and no idea what to spend them on.

    I'm planning to buy Grapnels for the Champions once the campaign gets underway for that sweet 12 inch hookshot action which should make Overseer -> Champ double move + charge action even more deadly.

    Any feedback would be really appreciated, I've only played a handful of games so I'm still very new.

    - Leader - Rosie - 180cr -
    Power Sword, Autopistol, Lasgun
    Skill: Overseer

    - Champion 1 - 200cr -
    Power Sword, Plasma Pistol
    Skill: Step Aside

    - Champion 2 - 150cr -
    Power Sword, Autopistol
    Skill: Rain of Blows (negotiable, could easily be Step Aside again)

    6x - Ganger - 55cr each 330cr total -
    Lasgun

    1x - Ganger - 70cr -
    Autopistol x2

    2x - Juve - 40cr each 80cr total -
    Autopistol x2

    Totals to 1000cr on the dot unless I've made a mistake.

    I'm reasonably happy with it, but I want to see if there's any obvious improvements I could make. Particularly, the thought process behind the Plasma Pistol, Juves and Rain of Blows are a bit hazy. Juves because they are cheap meat shields for the Leader and are cheap, Plasma Pistol because I literally couldn't think of anything else for those 50creds.

    Leader has a lasgun mostly just to make sure she always has the ability to contribute if for some reason she's afraid of melee and can't use Oversee on a Champion. It's 5 creds that were only not spare if I wanted another Lasgun ganger, or possible some Krak Grenades.
     
  2. The_A_Drain

    The_A_Drain New Member

    (can't seem to find the edit button, sorry!)

    I'm also mulling over the idea of finding points for a Shotgun on one of the Lasgun gangers for situations where one might be helpful for a specific scenario, but tbh I can't think of many situations where a Lasgun wouldn't be preferable. Shotgun can potentially push-back but, that's incredibly situational.
     
  3. The_A_Drain

    The_A_Drain New Member

    Also I'd love suggestions on Tactics Cards (sorry for the triple post!)

    My current faves in situations where you can pick them yourself are:

    '...Click' for plasma guns, meltaguns, etc (one guy in my group will for sure be taking a Meltagun)
    Stealthy Advance
    Counter Charge to help get Champ 2 a free use of Rain of Blows.
    Adrenaline Surge
    Blazing Fury
    Not So Easy (to help push a bottling gang out of the game)
    Blackout
    Group Tactics

    It's pretty tough to pick just 2, but mostly I've been using Blazing Fury and Adrenaline Surge
     
  4. Nucit

    Nucit Ganger

    Like it, it's close to what I build my first gang on. However, you are very much dependent on just 3 models to do the work. Mass is nice with Escher but having some tricks up the sleeves could save you the day. Give some grenades out to normal Ganger, just to make them a little bit more versatile.
     
  5. Kairae

    Kairae Ganger

    Necromunda is primarily a shooting game. I’d be cautious being overly reliant on CC to do damage.

    Equally, I’d avoid CC skills in preference for Agility skills in particular Spring Up and Dodge.

    I’ve been getting good work out of a Powersword, Autopistol, Shotgun Champion. And with an Overseer Leader I’d go with a Powersword, Autopistol, Combi Bolter Champion to provide fire support.

    Juves aren’t great. I like Escher Juves but their only advantage is their mobility so I’m making mine Move 8 to max that out. I’ve equipped mine with Autopistol + Laspistol so they have a chance of getting hitting on a 4 or 5+ inside 8.

    Re: Tactics. I’m a huge fan of Scrag (Enemy takes Nerve checks within 9”) and Stealthy Advance (half your gang gets a free Move action before the game starts). Scrag in particular is great in Escher v Escher mirror matches.

    If I was starting again I’d probably go 1L/2C/6G/1J to start. I’d go with the 6 Lasgun Gangers, Autopistol + Laspistol Juve, and 630 Creds on Champs and Leaders with at least 2 decent Guns.

    I’d suggest playing a casual game first so you get a feel of just how much shooting dominates 3D battles.
     
    pr01e likes this.
  6. The_A_Drain

    The_A_Drain New Member

    Thanks for the input Kairae I appreciate it.

    I do agree, shooting dominates in this game but I think shooting dominates mostly for the effects of being pinned. Melee seems to do more actual outright damage. Then again, as you quite rightly pointed out I've only played a handful of games so far, and will be playing as many casual games as I can with this list before I'm locked into the campaign next month.

    The list I played with before is similar to this one but with more pistols/shotguns and less lasguns, and a chem-thrower and less effective melee weapons (stilleto knives etc) and even with that, it seemed that the lasguns heavily impacted my opponents options for movement, and were very reliable (2+ ammo) so almost never need re-loading.

    But it seemed like doing actual damage with shooting was kinda tricky without big expensive weaponry. Whereas the melee girls, once they could get into position thanks to the lasgun support, actually did the cleaning up, especially due to the way Serious Injury gets you a free Coup de grace and a consolidation that can potentially bring you into combat with a nearby enemy who wasn't initially engaged.

    That said I completely agree the list lacks any shooting punch and puts all of its damage potential into those 3 models. I am thinking about a variant list that drops both Juves and replaces them with some grenades, maybe a shotgun, and moving the Plasma Pistol off of the champion and onto one of the gangers so some of that damage potential is spread around a bit. What would you think of that?

    I haven't looked at Scrag much, thanks for the tip!
     
  7. The_A_Drain

    The_A_Drain New Member

    I like the Bolters in this game a lot, I think they do great damage for the associated cost. However, I'm shying away from them here because I don't like the Combi part of the Combi Bolter, and the Boltgun part of it is 5+ ammo check which I think is too risky and the 3-weapon limit means I can't supplement that with a backup Lasgun if I want to keep her melee bonus attack.

    But then again, maybe she doesn't need the melee if her main plan is to use Overseer to slingshot the champions. Maybe she should just have a nice chunky gun such as a Bolter, and a 5cr cheapo lasgun for emergencies.
     
  8. Ted Maul

    Ted Maul Juve

    I would consider trialling some gas grenades or a chem thrower for some crowd control. Your command unit is a bit too melee heavy so worry they'd struggle to contribute early doors.

    Also, probably only one juve with the current state of the rules.

    Not got the books with me so can't do the sums at the mo.
     
  9. Kairae

    Kairae Ganger

    Without an Ammo cache it's basically not worth it to try and reload a Boltgun anyway, and most of the time if you have to take an Ammo check you'll fail. Combi gives you a Needler as your backup weapon once you run out of Ammo on the Bolter (or someone plays Click): so you have to fail your Ammo check twice to be completely useless. Overall, you're not any worse off than with just a Bolter.

    I don't like 2 x Basic/Special weapon builds on Escher Champions/Leaders: that +1 attack from Dual wielding is just far too useful. My go-to build is Basic/Special weapon/Plasma Pistol, Autopistol, Powersword. Another common build is Lasgun, Plasma Pistol, Powersword (I don't like this build as it's begging to be Clicked).
     
  10. The_A_Drain

    The_A_Drain New Member

    I just don't know about the Combi rifle.

    Both the Bolter and Needler component are 6+ ammo check, and if you're stuck with the Needler part of it, you're forced to use Toxic if you do injure. Scarce isn't so bad because if you're forced to reload it you'd want to reload the bolter portion which isn't scarce, but I just don't like that idea for 80 credits. It seems too unreliable for the money. Especially as you said, it's a prime target for 'Click...' alongside the Plasma Pistol.

    80 creds would mean dropping another model. Which is quite a big tradeoff imo.

    Plasma Sword, Autopistol and Lasgun loadout is only 60 credits, it lacks the ability to do any long range damage, but to replace that with 2 autopistols and a Boltgun Combi that's 100 cred loadout.

    The other reason I think 80cr on a Boltgun might not be the best idea is that every opportunity she has to use the Overseer skill ability, she won't get to shoot that expensive weapon anyway.

    Initially I thought the Combi-Bolter was 65creds for some reason and was considering it, but 80 creds just seems too much. It would force me to either leave somebody unequipped, or drop down to 10 models.

    I kinda wish she had access to some sort of dedicated sniping rifle.
     
  11. The_A_Drain

    The_A_Drain New Member

    I'm currently thinking:

    - Leader - Rosie - 145cr -
    Autopistol x2, Lasgun
    Skill: Overseer

    - Champion 1 - 150cr -
    Power Sword, Auto Pistol
    Skill: Step Aside

    - Champion 2 - 150cr -
    Power Sword, Autopistol
    Skill: Rain of Blows

    6x - Ganger - 55cr -
    Lasgun

    1x - Ganger - 105cr -
    Autopistol x2, Frag Grenades

    1x - Ganger- 120cr -
    Autopistol x2, Plasma Pistol

    What I said above got me thinking, if I want my Leader to be taking advantage of Overseer, why give her a big expensive weapon at all? And spread those points out to some of the other gangers. Sure, it would be preferable if the Plasma Pistol were on a BS 3+ model, but the 2 Champions will be trying to get into Combat most of the time, and the Leader will be helping them to do that.

    I could still easily put the Plasma Pistol on the Champ or Leader in this build, though.
     
  12. Kairae

    Kairae Ganger

    Toxic at Range is better than not having Toxic against the majority of targets; so using the Needler isn't an issue. Sure, it's not as effective as the Bolter but in reality you're not generally going to waste a turn reloading a regular Bolter anyway (unless it's very early in the mission). If you're very concerned about it take 'Lucky Find'.

    I wouldn't give the Combi Bolter to an Overseer Leader: I'd give it to a Champion. Combibolter + Powersword + Autopistol Champion fuelled by an Overseer leader gives you great firepower and keeps the same CC potential as you have already. But competely underarming your Leader like that misses out on your best CC fighter being any good in CC. I don't think Overseer is something that you use every round in Escher; rather, you use it a couple of times each game but your Leader still gets stuck in: competely underarming your Leader I feel misses out on a lot of what makes Escher leaders good.

    Plasma Pistol is ridiculously good in CC. The worst thing that can happen in CC is that you fail to take out your opponent on a charge: it gives them a free opportunity to injure you. A Plasma Pistol is the highest damage CC weapon in the game at the moment. Use it on Max Power to ensure you take out enemy champions before they can attack back.

    I don't know what the dual Autopistol Ganger is designed to do? If it's a CC build then a Juve would do it better, if it's not a CC build then an Autogun would be better to start with (and give it the 2 x Autopistols later).

    I don't get why you're taking Grenades if you're so concerned about Combi-weapon Ammo checks. You'll run out of Grenades way more often than you'll run out of both the Bolt + Needler ammo.

    I'd honestly find that gang unplayable. It has absolutely 0 ability to threaten Champions/Leaders at range. But each to their own :)
     
  13. The_A_Drain

    The_A_Drain New Member

    I definitely get what you're saying, the gang lacks a way to do real damage at long range.

    The autopistol gangers/juves are designed to offer backup to the melee champions and provide assist/interference bonuses. But again, how effective that will be is up for debate as I've only had mild effectiveness from those mechanics thus far.

    I hadn't thought of putting the Boltgun on a champion, that's a super good idea.

    What would you say to something more like this:
    I'm not personally a fan of going below 11 models but I can easily pick up a Juve a few games into the campaign if I still feel I need to.

    - Leader - Rosie - 195cr -
    Autogun, Autopistol, Plasma Pistol
    Skill: Overseer

    - Champion 1 - 230cr -
    Power Sword, Auto Pistol, Combi-Bolter
    Skill: Rain of Blows

    - Champion 2 - 200cr -
    Power Sword, Autopistol, Plasma Pistol
    Skill: Step Aside

    6x - Ganger - 55cr -
    Lasgun

    1x - Juve - 40cr -
    Autopistol x2

    995cr total

    I think this ensures that the better BS models all have something effective to shoot with, and are deadly in CC. I put Rain of Blows on the Champ without the Plasma Pistol so that if she happens to be in a position to use it because she fails to kill, it'll help boost her a little bit next round.

    The single Juve feels a bit weird, and doesn't serve any specific purpose other than trying to draw fire, but I have 45creds leftover. 55 if I drop the Autogun on the leader so I could afford a 7th Ganger, or another weapon, but then I'm sitting at 9 models, and I honestly think less than 10 seems like a bad idea for Escher.
     
  14. Zayneth

    Zayneth Juve

    hey there fellow escher enthusiast! ive come to learn from experience that spring up is almost mandatory for escher melee champs. I feel it works akin to how goliaths and nerve of steel works. it plays toward the innate advatages of the gang. I love step aside as a second skill followed by rain of blows. the combination of these skills in this order with a power sword (or two...>.> im one of those guys...) creates a hard to kill assassin
     
    Kairae and Thorgor like this.
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