Rule Query: 1 and 6

[Ben_S]

For at least some actions, there's a rule that a natural 1 always fails and a natural 6 always passes. Call this the '1 and 6 rule'.

Going through the CRP, this is stated in the sections on dodging, picking up the ball, throwing the ball, catching the ball, etc. But, so far as I can see, there's nothing stating that this is a general rule that applies where not specifically stated. However, I think some players do take it to be a more general rule. I can think of at least three possible options:

1. The '1 and 6 rule' applies ONLY where explicitly stated and NOT to ANY other rolls (e.g. skill rolls).

2. The '1 and 6 rule' applies to all AGILITY rolls, including both the actions mentioned and when called for by skills, but not to any other, non-agility rolls (e.g. a GFI roll).

3. The '1 and 6' rule applies to all d6 rolls.

 

[spafe]

In practice it applies to every roll. I suspect it is hidden away somewhere, but until I find it that will remain a suspicion of mine.

however option 1 of the poll is redundant as at a minimum option 2 is true. All agility tests that have modifiers in the official rules (bb2016):

A roll of 1 before modification ALWAYS fails
and a roll of 6 before modification ALWAYS succeeds for any
Agility roll made during a game

I can't think of any place where you have modifiers that would get it to an auto pass or fail, apart from said pieces in the basic rules (that have the caveat about 1 and 6 failing or passing)

 

[Ben_S]

So the 2016 rules do specify that the rule applies to all Agility rolls? Do you mind telling me where, so I can check the equivalent passage in the CRP?

I may well have missed something but, so far as I could see, it was only specified for particular actions (passing, catching, etc).

 

[spafe]

So the 2016 rules do specify that the rule applies to all Agility rolls

yes, from my check through, on each item. So as they explain any agility action that has modifiers they (rather inefficiently) repeat the same thing again and again. So there isn't a single passage.

I'll have a scan of my crp pack though and see if I can find you the reference in there.

 

[spafe]

Page 8 of the CRP (in bold italics):

 

[Ben_S]

Aha, good catch. This general rule is apparently only stated in the section on picking up the ball.

Not only is the '1 and 6' rule needlessly repeated elsewhere, without this crucial bit, but this bit isn't included in the first statement of the rule.

Interestingly, this suggests the correct answer to the question is 2 (only Agility rolls) - contrary to current polling results.

 

[spafe]

his suggests the correct answer to the question is 2 (only Agility rolls) - contrary to current polling results

Is there another time there is modifiers that would allow a 1 to pass or a 6 to fail?

Honest question because I can't think of any.

 

[Ben_S]

I don't know for sure, what with all the extra rules (cards, pitches, etc) out there. I guess quite often any additional modifiers also specify a 1 and 6 rule, meaning that they don't lead to automatic success/failure.

I believe there is something that affects GFI rolls. Possibly if you had a cumulative penalty then a 6 might fail, but it would need a lot of stacked penalties (and assuming the source of the penalties doesn't specify that 6 still always succeeds).

I just checked the Timm-ber rule from DZ1. That does have a provision that 1 always fails, no matter how many assists you have. Interestingly, it says "remember that a 1 is always a failure" - which is surprising wording, given that it's not an Agility roll, so I don't know where you're supposed to remember this from. So far as I can see, it wouldn't be the case without this clause....

Maybe a Dauntless roll, though it would take ST1 against ST7 or ST2 against ST8. There you can roll a 6 and still fail.

 

[spafe]

There may well be in amongst all the cards. I've never played with them. With regards to skills, good call on dauntless (a treeman with +2 str is immune to a dauntless human catcher!), but apart from that... I honestly dont think there are any, most skills (sure feet for gfi for example), allow a reroll to that skill, and the accurate is one of the few that give a modifier, but that is to a pass, which has the usual caveat.

I think the intent is clearly (to me) that a 1 should always fail and a 6 should always pass, partly down to how it is worded practically everywhere, and also things like the timm-ber rule which hints that it is intended as a standard rule.

 

[Ben_S]

I started out by thinking about skills that require Agility rolls. There are several of those - Hypnotic Gaze, Safe Throw, Leap, etc. In most cases, you'd need AG6 in order for automatic success to be a possibility, but in particular I was thinking of Jump Up, which is an Agility roll with a +2 modifier. That makes it a 2+ for AG3 but - were it not for the 1 and 6 rule - would be a 1+ for AG4.

So, that one wouldn't be terribly unusual (Witch Elves start with AG4 and Jump Up). But that's ruled out, now we've found that the 1 and 6 rule applies to ALL Agility rolls, even where not specifically stated. That's resolved what I was originally thinking about anyway.

I'm rather unconvinced that the 1 and 6 rule applies to other (non-Agility) rolls, unless specifically stated. It would seem odd to infer that, from the statement that it applies to all Agility rolls. (Why would the rules say all Agility rolls, if they really mean all rolls whatsoever?)

So far as I'm aware, the only hint otherwise is that Timm-ber rule. That's a new addition to BB2016, so I assume it's simply suffered from the usual standard of GW rule writing, with the writer assuming that the rules were other than they actually are. (Indeed, I believe it got a near day one erratum to remove Timm-ber from the Wood Elf Treeman, showing that it wasn't added that carefully.)

Given that everything pre-BB2016 had been carefully honed by the BBRC through several editions of the LRB, I think if Timm-ber suggests something contrary to what's actually in the main rules, it's the suggestion in Timm-ber that should be ignored.

(To be clear, I'd take this sentence to specify that a natural 1 always fails the stand-up roll. All I'm saying is that I wouldn't take the 'remember' to be a reliable indication that the '1 and 6' rule actually applies to all rolls, given that this isn't specified anywhere.)

 

[DArquebus]

Option 2. There are not many places where it matters much, although there are a few cards that allow the modifiers to things like GFIs.

There was briefly 'excitement' about an option to 1 turn pitch clear an opponent with the incremental GFI card and the Kingmaker card on a Goblin Fanatic. You could GFI infinitely and just choose 6 to hit the opposing players down and then 'foul' them until they were all out ... but it was quickly determined that the 1 and 6 rule was only on Agility rolls and not GFI rolls.

So yeah, mostly from cards more than anything else.