Rules Suggestions- Game Structure

Orngog

YCE Project Manager
Tribe Council
Aug 30, 2014
561
507
113
Wiltshire
Here we are then folks, the fun stuff! I'll be opening a thread for each subsection of the rules so please post your suggestions in the relevant place.
 

Jayward

Ganger
Aug 4, 2020
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219
43
Well right off the top of my head would be 'Fleeing the Battlefield', which is in the Action Phase, but there are some rules which reference it happening in the End Phase. Some clarification needed there. My personal preference is that it should be in the End Phase (where the related Bottle Test happens) but I'm not sure what knock-on effects that has with other rules
 

Thorgor

Of The YAQ
Oct 12, 2015
4,254
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Sevres 92130 France
It has already been said but the Round/Phase/Turn/Activation/Action terminology needs to be clearly defined and consistently used throughout the rules.

My current understanding is that:

A game is made from:
  • The Pre-battle sequence
  • A succession of Rounds
  • The Post-battle sequence
A Round is made from:
  • The Priority phase
  • The Action phase
  • The End phase
The Action phase is made from:
  • A succession of player's Turns
A player's turn is made from:
  • One or several fighter's Activations (one in the usual case, several with Group Activation)
A fighter's Activation is made from:
  • One or several Actions (or zero)
Or, to put it another way:
  • Game
    • Pre-battle sequence
    • Rounds
      • Priority phase
      • Action phase
        • Player's Turns
          • Fighter's Activation(s)
            • Action(s)
      • End phase
    • Post-battle sequence
 

Kiro The Avenger

Gang Hero
Apr 4, 2018
802
997
98
Bristol, UK
It has already been said but the Round/Phase/Turn/Activation/Action terminology needs to be clearly defined and consistently used throughout the rules.

My current understanding is that:

A game is made from:
  • The Pre-battle sequence
  • A succession of Rounds
  • The Post-battle sequence
A Round is made from:
  • The Priority phase
  • The Action phase
  • The End phase
The Action phase is made from:
  • A succession of player's Turns
A player's turn is made from:
  • One or several fighter's Activations (one in the usual case, several with Group Activation)
A fighter's Activation is made from:
  • One or several Actions (or zero)
Or, to put it another way:
  • Game
    • Pre-battle sequence
    • Rounds
      • Priority phase
      • Action phase
        • Player's Turns
          • Fighter's Activation(s)
            • Action(s)
      • End phase
    • Post-battle sequence
Totally agree, I'm happy with the structure, it's just referring to it consistently (looking at you Omen of Fortune!)

Well right off the top of my head would be 'Fleeing the Battlefield', which is in the Action Phase, but there are some rules which reference it happening in the End Phase. Some clarification needed there. My personal preference is that it should be in the End Phase (where the related Bottle Test happens) but I'm not sure what knock-on effects that has with other rules
Fleeing occuring at the start of a round means the remaining player still has one round unobstructed to try and rush and complete the objective.
 
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Jayward

Ganger
Aug 4, 2020
130
219
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I tink I've misunderstood you here? You don't get the extra round if they Flee the Battlefield at the start of the round; the rules state that the battle ends. So whether the battle ends at the end of the previous round or the start of the next one is no different.

As for Objectives that can be claimed in the End Phase, I think they all happen before the Bottle Test, so again, no difference. Anyway, it's not a hill I'm prepared to die on, it just seems unintuitive.
 

Kiro The Avenger

Gang Hero
Apr 4, 2018
802
997
98
Bristol, UK
I tink I've misunderstood you here? You don't get the extra round if they Flee the Battlefield at the start of the round; the rules state that the battle ends. So whether the battle ends at the end of the previous round or the start of the next one is no different.

As for Objectives that can be claimed in the End Phase, I think they all happen before the Bottle Test, so again, no difference. Anyway, it's not a hill I'm prepared to die on, it just seems unintuitive.
I hadn't actually noticed that.
You're right, if the gang chooses to flee the battle ends immediately.
However if every fighter fails their cool check, the battle continues until the end phase still.

Also, if the gang chooses to flee they leave their seriously injured fighters in place.
But if the gang attempts to stay and fight, seriously injured fighters must take cool checks and flee as normal.
 
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Jayward

Ganger
Aug 4, 2020
130
219
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Oh, yeah, I hadn't even noticed the extra inconsistencies!

Just goes to show that this definitely needs looking at!
 
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Al_Weeks

Gang Champion
Honored Tribesman
Dec 22, 2014
346
386
93
Bristol
It has already been said but the Round/Phase/Turn/Activation/Action terminology needs to be clearly defined and consistently used throughout the rules.

My current understanding is that:

A game is made from:
  • The Pre-battle sequence
  • A succession of Rounds
  • The Post-battle sequence
A Round is made from:
  • The Priority phase
  • The Action phase
  • The End phase
The Action phase is made from:
  • A succession of player's Turns
A player's turn is made from:
  • One or several fighter's Activations (one in the usual case, several with Group Activation)
A fighter's Activation is made from:
  • One or several Actions (or zero)
Or, to put it another way:
  • Game
    • Pre-battle sequence
    • Rounds
      • Priority phase
      • Action phase
        • Player's Turns
          • Fighter's Activation(s)
            • Action(s)
      • End phase
    • Post-battle sequence
This is a fantastic break down, and a great reference when going forward.

I might print this out to guide my thoughts
 

Al_Weeks

Gang Champion
Honored Tribesman
Dec 22, 2014
346
386
93
Bristol
I hadn't actually noticed that.
You're right, if the gang chooses to flee the battle ends immediately.
However if every fighter fails their cool check, the battle continues until the end phase still.

Also, if the gang chooses to flee they leave their seriously injured fighters in place.
But if the gang attempts to stay and fight, seriously injured fighters must take cool checks and flee as normal.
Great spot.

It seems logical to me the the round should be played out given the current state of scenario victory conditions, but those themselves are a whole other kettle of fish.

I'll dig out my modifications to scenarios from the last campaign house rules set at some point (it was an attempt to make more scenarios actually playable and enjoyable for both players).

I'll hold fire for now until we discuss scenarios.
 

Orngog

YCE Project Manager
Tribe Council
Aug 30, 2014
561
507
113
Wiltshire
No, I meant thorgor's post, and i've done it now so no worries.

But I would like to hear about/see your scenario changes at some point?
 

Al_Weeks

Gang Champion
Honored Tribesman
Dec 22, 2014
346
386
93
Bristol
No, I meant thorgor's post, and i've done it now so no worries.

But I would like to hear about/see your scenario changes at some point?
I'll extract them from the campign document and tidy them up at some point soon.

They were very much and attempt to make a wider range of scenarios desirable to play.

Still couldn't decide on how to fix stealth missions mind :-D
 

Kiro The Avenger

Gang Hero
Apr 4, 2018
802
997
98
Bristol, UK
You got me very curious.
We banned them :p

Stealth missions necessarily taking away agency from the defender - if they're unaware there is anyone nearby any agency they get is contradictory.
And I think playing a mission where you fundamentally can't do anything is very lame for the defender, they cannot be made fun for both sides.

Best you could do to make them work is to have a load of tokens, some fake and some real. But that gets complicated and silly imo.
 

Al_Weeks

Gang Champion
Honored Tribesman
Dec 22, 2014
346
386
93
Bristol
OK so I finally put some ideas to paper so to speak.

New Sentry Rules:

· In all missions with the Sentry Rules the attackers gang size is changed from Custom to Custom (5+d3).
· It is recommended that in the Sneak Attack and Sabotage missions the objective is placed so that it is not visible from or too close to any point in the attacker’s deployment zone. As this encourages moving the attacking force into position before being able to attack the objective, thus giving the defender a chance.

Option 1

· Instead of following the normal procedure for activating sentries the following is done
o When it is the turn of a sentry to activate, roll a dice on a 3+ the defender may choose one sentry and make one move (simple) action with the sentry, on a 1 or 2, the attacking player may choose one sentry and make one move (simple) action. If they end this move within 1 inch of a door or terminal, the controlling player may choose to have them open or close that door (remember defending fighters know all the codes to the doors on the battlefield.
o If the sentry ends this activation within the normal criteria for potentially spotting a fighter then test as normal.
o If a sentry is hit by an attack that either fails to wound them, or fails to take them OOA or Seriously Injured, then place a ready token next to the fighter.
o If an enemy fighter opens or closes a door, or uses a duct way, after this action is complete roll 2d6, any sentry that is within that many inches may roll a dice. On a 5+ they gain a ready marker (the open door, or the noise in the duct way makes them think something is suspicious.
o When sentries are taken OOA, leave a marker to represent their body.
o Body Markers may be moved by attacking fighters in the same way as a crate.
o If a sentry ends it’s movement with a seriously injured friendly fighter or a body marker within 2d6 of it and in its vision arc, they gain a ready marker. Or if the seriously injured fighter or body marker is within 3 inches (regardless of whether they are in their vision arc or not), they gain a ready marker
o If the alarm is raised during the action phase, the action phase immediately ends, and all fighters with a ready marker lose it. Complete the end phase (including the re-enforcement roll) and move onto a new priority phase as normal (the sentry rules are no longer in use).

Option 2

· The defenders sentries are deployed first using the following method. The defender places the model and then rolls 2d6 and the scatter dice. On a hit the model is placed where is was intended, if an arrow is rolled move the fighter that many inches, The defending player may then decide its facing (this represents the sentries possibly being in less than ideal positions in their patrols, when the attacker launchers their attack)
· The attacker then deploys their fighters as normal in their deployment zone, but may not place any fighters within 6 inches of a sentry.
· Before rolling for priority the attacker may make an Initiative test for each model in their gang. If they pass the may make a free activation before the game begins. Models with a unwieldy weapon suffer -2 to this test.
If the defending gang has a model with a bio scanner as a sentry all attacking fighters get -1 to this test.
· Only weapons with the silenced trait may make shooting attacks before as part of this free pre game activation.
· After this pre-game round is played roll for priority as normal.
· The defenders reinforcements arrive from the second end phase onwards.


Thoughts.

These were the two options that I nearly got round to implementing in our local campaigns.

I think option 2 is probably the best because its simpler, but either I think still needs work hence why I didnt bite the bullet and use them in anger.
 

Ledward

Ganger
Jun 6, 2017
66
69
33
Belgium
When you'd flee the battlefield would make more sense for me right after the bottle checks in the end phase instead of the beginning of the round. For the extra movements to quick grab remaining objectives I propose a feature from the new video game, loot round. When all enemy fighters are ooa or left the battlefield, the remaining gang may perform one more turn to capture loot, try to help downed fighters get back up, etc...