Should I go for the 4th Catcher?

[Ben_S]

After a summer hiatus, we've started a new league. I redrafted my Pro Elves, whereas I know at least two of the four coaches from the previous league have gone for new teams. (The other has yet to show up, so not sure what he's gone for.) This means I've been giving away a lot of inducements in my two games so far, but here's roughly what my team looks like now:

4 rookie linement, one of whom is MNG, plus a 5th with Kick.
2 Throwers, both with Dodge and Accurate.
Blitzer with Tackle.
Blitzer with Dodge and Shadowing.
Catcher with Guard.
2 Catchers with Blodge (one has -MA).

4 re-rolls, Apo, and 8 fan factor gives a TV of about 1,550. We started at 1.2m gold but in my two games so far I faced Hubris Rakarth in the first and two star players plus a wizardy thing in the second.

I've got 130k in my treasury, so should I buy the 4th Catcher now? They do seem like great players but, on the other hand, I'll be going into the next game with only 12 players (inc the new addition), only three of whom are disposable line fodder. I could buy two Linemen, or one now and save some gold.

Other teams are:
Dark Elves (who I lost the first match to)
Underworld (who I beat in my second match)
Norse
Ogres
And at least one other unconfirmed (possibly a redrafted Undead team or a new one).

 

[GX-Q7]

The 4th catcher can wait.
What you need is a more even spread of team value within the team so you won't have to rely on individual stars.

Elf linemen are fantastic players because they are the cheapest to replace and very fast to gain their first skill. It's worthwhile trying to develop some good linemen, they can be very TV effective when you're facing lower valued teams. With either dodge or block as first or second skill choice, this depending on the amount of tackle that your opponents have on their rosters, then sidestep and guard on doubles. But it's those +ST or +AG that you're really hoping for, as they will make a superstar out of any elf. A lineman who gets two or three skills and no doubles or stat upgrades should be up for replacement, and should start his games on the line as a sign of his coach's disapproval.

 

[almic85]

4 catchers and drop some rerolls.

You could probably hold off on buying him for a game or two but why bother in what I’m guessing is a 5 game league when they are what will win you games?

Your line elf’s will die and are expendable (even with plus stats). Journeyman elves are even better line fodder.

If I was going to drop anything it would be one of your throwers. You don’t need them when you have that many catchers. The only benefit throwers have over linemen is cheap normal access to the leader skill.

 

[Ben_S]

Interesting; opinion seems to be split so far.

What you need is a more even spread of team value within the team so you won't have to rely on individual stars.
...
it's those +ST or +AG that you're really hoping for, as they will make a superstar out of any elf.

I was thinking that I ought to try skilling up some Linemen too. A few with Dodge or Wrestle could be useful. But I tend to use them as disposable line fodder and no more, the consequence being that apart from the one Kick-er, they've not earned a single SPP between them.

As for stats, I seem to be really bad at rolling advances! I remember having +ST a couple of times, including a Dark Elf Blitzer who was a monster. But in all the times I've played BB, I only recall rolling +AG once, and that was for a Chaos Minotaur after the last game of the season anyway.

This team are I think eight games old. They've had at least 14 advance rolls, with only one double (Guard) and no stats, afaik.

4 catchers and drop some rerolls.
...
Your line elf’s will die and are expendable (even with plus stats). Journeyman elves are even better line fodder.
...
If I was going to drop anything it would be one of your throwers.

Now I have some skills, I considered dropping a re-roll during redrafting, but it wasn't enough to save a Lineman anyway, so I figured I'd keep them. I can roll a lot of 1s, though normally they end up double 1s even after the re-roll...

I agree that the Linemen are expendable. I'd take Journeymen if I could, but I'd rather have 13-14 on my roster.

Disagree about the Throwers though - only 10k more than a Lineman to get Pass plus access to other Passing skills. I probably need to make more use of them though. I think I've only thrown one pass in two games!

 

[almic85]

You are only throwing one pass in two games because the throwers don’t actually get used as throwers.

They just hand off to a catcher or Blitzer who runs up the field.

If you have 2 blitzers, 4 catchers, 2 throwers and 3 lineman you have your starting 11, but ask yourself if the lineelves get injured who is next to be sacrificed? The throwers because they are glorified linemen you can play without.

I’m not saying they are not good value for money or that if you have more than 11 players you shouldn’t have 2, but I wouldn’t waste the TV on the second one unless he took leader as his first skill.

 

[Fold]

I’ve not played pro Elves but have a decent amount of wood elf experience. I think I’d agree with almic here on cutting a thrower. Unless you play risky sort of balls to the wall blood bowl you don’t pass that much - you’ve said yourself you don’t. And so not only are you paying extra for those two players for no reason but also for 2 x accurate that doesn’t get used.

I played one thrower in wood elves who probably pass a bit more than pro elves but even then the thrower is considered a bit questionable (though I also started with 0 rerolls for a challenge last league and so a cheap reroll in the Leader skill was very useful).

I’d also drop a reroll on your team.

 

[Ben_S]

Unless you play risky sort of balls to the wall blood bowl you don’t pass that much - you’ve said yourself you don’t. And so not only are you paying extra for those two players for no reason but also for 2 x accurate that doesn’t get used.

I think I need to get used to passing more, at least where I can do it on a re-rollable 2+ and catch on a re-rollable 2+. I think I try to play like Dark Elves. To be fair, one of the games this season was Very Sunny throughout, and up against a Dark Elf team with the agility to take advantage of any mistakes.

Accurate was taken with the intention of enabling long throws, but perhaps it's not actually the best choice. In fact, I'm not yet committed to it on the second Thrower - he only skilled up last game, so I was intending to take Accurate, but could go for something else (Safe Throw? Nerves of Steel? Block? Sure Hands?)

 

[spafe]

This is my thrower after 4 games with my pro elves:

I dunno what you mean about only throwing a pass or 2 a game, over 4 games I've passed 14 times (at least, that many completions, might have missed one or 2).

I do however only go one thrower, he's my safety at the back, so rarely gets involved in hitting things, hence not really having a spare. I have 2 catchers currently, because one died recently. I'm aiming for 4 though.

 

[almic85]

Second catcher gets leader.

Drop a reroll and put him on the line of scrimmage in the second half when you start running short on numbers.

If he lives long enough get him block , then accurate. Then you can use him for passing.

Hell you can use a line elf for passing at a pinch.

But if you are going to run two throwers you should be passing the ball every turn to try and get SPP.

 

[Fold]

@Ben_S Yeah, either pass more or fully embrace the dark elf style.

Passing more means quicker scores with a view to bigger winning margins, so you also need to be more aggressive and have the right skills to sack your opponents ball carrier (otherwise if your opponent is good, all scoring quickly achieves is giving them the ball and putting them in charge of the flow of the game).

But if passing more then keep one (and get him sure hands so he can very reliably pick up and throw). Nerves of steel I find is generally better on the catcher than the thrower.

If you instead embrace the dark elf style, then you don’t really need either of the throwers as you would rather pick it up with whoever is going to score that drive and then just keep hold of it. But then what’s the point in playing pro elves instead of actual dark elves?

 

[Ben_S]

In case anyone wants to know what happens... I realised I'd be up against an Ogre team, so went for two linemen. He had the full six ogres, plus Bertha Bigfist through inducements.

The game started poorly for me, when he scored with a thrown snotling in turn 2. There wasn't much I could do to prevent that. But I responded in style, with four touchdowns of my own - including two that came from passes into the end zone. (These were just two of four or five passes thrown.)

I think, largely through necessity, I got the closest I've been to playing elves properly. I've done dodging through a whole load of tackle zones before but, as I said, not really exploited my passing potential. (To answer @Fold - I'm not saying that I deliberately play like dark elves, but only that I naturally slip into playing that way, as I have much more experience with them.)

But here's how my fourth TD came about: The ball was mid-way back in his half, with a couple of my catchers bearing down on the snotlings guarding it. He scoops it up with a snotling, runs forward, and tries for a throw team made, only to fumble the poor snotling. The only consolation is that the ball is still in an ogre's tackle zone around the half way line.

Time's running short at this point, so one of the catchers who is already well into his half takes a clear run into the end zone (corner square). Now I just need my thrower to pick up in a tz (3+), dodge out (2+ with re-roll), throw a long pass (3+ with re-roll), and for the catcher to catch (2+ with re-roll).

As a nice bonus, I came through the match with no lasting injuries (one lineman will MNG, but I already had one missing this one anyway) and took home 80k in winnings, so I'm most of the way to buying that fourth catcher - hopefully after my next match.

 

[Fold]

Perfect. And it’s situations like that that make sure hands a good choice for the thrower!