Skirmish Game Design - An Ongoing, Open Discussion - 3-12-24 AI for Enemy Abilities & Powers

[Mad Robot]

@Punktaku this particular thread is about skirmish game design in general, not about my specific game. We can discuss anything we like about game design in general.

As for a setting, I always thought it would be interesting to have a skirmish game take place on the water. What I mean is everybody’s in boats. It would be a lot of ship to ship fighting and also boarding actions. Not necessarily pirates, could be any genre. Right off the bat I think of something like Waterworld.

 

[Punktaku]

Gorka Morka on the high seas!

 

[Hawkins44]

Age of Sail era naval battle could be fun. First boats (I wouldn't go higher than two or three per side, depending on the size of the boat) shoot each other with cannons, then there is boarding attempt if the ship doesn't sink, with miniatures representing (parts of) the crew. Sailors, armsmen and gunners, and the captain. Something like Port Royale PC game, but on tabletop.

 

[Biggle_Bear]

Giant junkyard. A trash planet, if we are talking scifi. Gangs of scavengers fight over loot using weapons and equipment made purely of junk and discarded items. Something that would make a Mek grow the greenest ork with envy, but still somewhat possible.

Some may say it is too similar to Mad Max, but Mad Max is still high-tech than what I mean. I'm thinking of improvised pipe guns and various wacky things, like pneumatic cannons shooting sharpened bowling pins, electrified net launchers, old lightbulb slingshot, airguns made of bicycle parts (Hello, Moscow Metro), microwave magnetron array with focusing deflectors, leafblower with glass dust injector, and this, but not rapid-fire...

That would be an awesome kitbash-centrc setting. If I bought that game I would totally get lost in my thoughts in day to day activities whenever I saw something in reality that would fit the setting.

 

[MedMos]

There are some battle reports on Tom's Boring Mordheim forum, with a piratey theme. They use some simple ship rules for encounters on the high seas, and the setting always really appealed to me. Only one small ship per side, as it just has to hold a warband, but looks like great fun! A good ruleset for ships could be ported to many systems, including futuristic ones.

 

[Biggle_Bear]

As for a setting, I always thought it would be interesting to have a skirmish game take place on the water. What I mean is everybody’s in boats. It would be a lot of ship to ship fighting and also boarding actions. Not necessarily pirates, could be any genre. Right off the bat I think of something like Waterworld.

I love the thought of how that would restrict movement, and the interesting challenges. It also sounds really cool from a modeller's point of view as scenery would usually consist of a boat per side that the player designed themselves with their gang aesthetic in mind.

 

[MedMos]

I love the thought of how that would restrict movement, and the interesting challenges. It also sounds really cool from a modeller's point of view as scenery would usually consist of a boat per side that the player designed themselves with their gang aesthetic in mind.

You could easily add some scenery, to influence movement and add to the aesthetic, like a reef, shipwreck, space debris etc.

 

[Hawkins44]

There are some battle reports on Tom's Boring Mordheim forum, with a piratey theme. They use some simple ship rules for encounters on the high seas, and the setting always really appealed to me. Only one small ship per side, as it just has to hold a warband, but looks like great fun! A good ruleset for ships could be ported to many systems, including futuristic ones.

Mordheim was a game I really enjoyed, and even planned on getting a band of pirates, and even an actual wooden ship model kit for them, but the game died in our community before that happened.

Still, I'd imagine rules similar to Mordheim to be used in such game.

That would be an awesome kitbash-centrc setting. If I bought that game I would totally get lost in my thoughts in day to day activities whenever I saw something in reality that would fit the setting.

That is exactly the point. Actual guns would be very rare, and most weapons would be either very basic melee weapons, or wacky household and industrial tools and components assembled as a weapon.

 

[Punktaku]

The “junkyard” one could get reigned in a bit to represent futuristic prison settings where the criminals are just dumped in and left to their own devices. One of the cyberpunk RPG systems had something called “Death Valley Free Prison” in it, and then there’s always Manhattan in Escape from New York.

And I’ve been making a space pirate themed gang for ages. Thanks to things like Bodacious Space Pirates, Space Pirate Captain Harlock, and Treasure Planet. And who can forget the opening scene for Star Wars: A New Hope?

 

[Hawkins44]

There was a movie about prisoners racing in weaponized cars, can't remember the name right now, so if the prison is organised, there could be a tournament of sorts. Or something like the Junkyard Ward the Discovery Channel ran around the 2010's, where teams had to construct a jury-rigged contraption to pass a challenge.

 

[MedMos]

There is Death Race 1-3, plus Death Race, Beyond Anarchy. Haven't seen any of them, but surely they are no match for Death Race 2000!

 

[Mad Robot]

There is Death Race 1-3, plus Death Race, Beyond Anarchy. Haven't seen any of them, but surely they are no match for Death Race 2000!

Different movies but all are fun! The original has the campiness and the initial remake had a solid cast. The sequels weren't great but they captured the essence of what they were...vehicles racing around trying to kill each other.

 

[Mad Robot]

There was a movie about prisoners racing in weaponized cars, can't remember the name right now, so if the prison is organised, there could be a tournament of sorts. Or something like the Junkyard Ward the Discovery Channel ran around the 2010's, where teams had to construct a jury-rigged contraption to pass a challenge.

There was that show and also something a bit similar called The Colony were the survivors had to cobble together junk from around them to survive, building things like water filters and power sources, even rudimentary vehicles.

 

[Mad Robot]

I have another question for you guys regarding activations. If the game is strictly a solo/co-op skirmish game, where the opponent is always controlled by basic AI rules, does the importance of determining activation order change?

In our previous exchanges, it seemed that something like a deck of playing cards offered the best choice due to its randomness. People seemed to be less than eager to use a simple dice roll-off. Do attitudes towards all of that change when faced with an AI controlled opponent?

 

[MedMos]

A dice roll-off makes more sense for a player vs player interaction. There is less tension in rolling dice against yourself, so I'd definitely prefer card draw vs an AI.

 

[Punktaku]

5 Parsecs has a very basic system which I think is too basic. (But I could be reading it wrong).

For the enemy would it be One Roll To Rule Them All, everyone gets a draw/roll, or separate them into categories that get draws (leaders, champions, mooks for example).

 

[Biggle_Bear]

Watching a D&D campaign on YouTube and the GM categorizes NPCs to determine initiative order. So all players roll for initiative, the main bad guy gets an individual roll, the present ally and then the mass of minions. If theres no difference between the NPC chaff then you might want to streamline it in a similar way

 

[Mad Robot]

Happy Sunday! I just did some playtesting of my rules, which by the way are now a solo narrative game, and I have a few specific questions I'd like to run by you.

The combat system is attack/counter attack. Regardless if ranged or melee, if the activated figure attacks, the defender can counter attack as long as they are within range. If the attacker successfully hits and the defender runs out of wounds, he is removed from the table. But, the defender still has the opportunity to counter attack before being removed.

Does that seem acceptable or should the figure being removed forfeit their counter attack?

 

[MedMos]

As a general rule, I like that you get to fight back. Makes it more like actual dynamic combat, where you don't just "wait your turn."

 

[Mad Robot]

As a general rule, I like that you get to fight back. Makes it more like actual dynamic combat, where you don't just "wait your turn."

I agree but it feels a bit strange when someone get shot, runs out of wounds, and then gets to shoot back one last time and take out the attacker as well lol. It was kinda cool but I was conflicted as to whether that would be ok with people.