N18 Sneak Attack Relic Deployment

Discussion in 'Scenarios & Tactics' started by UncleFester, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. UncleFester

    UncleFester Ganger

    In Sneak Attack scenario, it says to deploy the Gang Relic within 6" of an edge. It then says Attacker deploys within 4" of any edge, even clarifying, "all edges" are available.

    So Attacker could deploy his whole gang about 2" from the objective.

    I am sure this is a mistake, right? It should be that the Relic deploys within 6" of the center, right?
     
  2. My group plays this scenario often and we assume it was a typo and was meant to say " within 6" of the middle of the board". This makes the scenario at least playable. That being said it's still an exceptionally hard up hill battle for the defender, but it was designed that way
     
  3. I believe the intention is "not within 6" of an edge". That's also a more easily made typo.
     
  4. Alobar

    Alobar Gang Hero

    In the first rulebook this appeared in, the wording was indeed within a few inches of the centre (can't remember exact words).
    When asked why the rules were changed so dramatically for the compendium, enabling such an easy win, the specialist games team said the changes were deliberate. So it's not a typo, according to their email response monkey...
    our group has banned that scenario as it's beyond playable with those words, and implementing a house rule to change it would be too difficult for the number of players we have, and as you've hinted at, it's still a very win for the attacker and potentially no fun for either player...
     
  5. Jacob Dryearth

    Jacob Dryearth Gang Hero

    It was within 8" of the center in the Underhive rulebook. Why ban the scenario when you can just fix it?
     
    SoothSayer likes this.
  6. Alobar

    Alobar Gang Hero

    Agree it’s a simple fix, but with 15 players often playing in groups of 2-4 little changes like this get missed too often. This ain’t the only issue with it. The sentries rules are broken too, massively.
     
    Jacob Dryearth likes this.
  7. What donyid think's wrong with sentries?
     
  8. enyoss

    enyoss Gang Hero
    Tribe Council

    Off the top of my head the following is a bit weird:

    - sentries don’t get alerted if shot and pinned
    - sentries on fire aren’t alerted
    - weapons fired by sentries don’t raise the alarm
    - sentries can’t open doors
    - sentries can be broken by other sentries going seriously injured within 3”, without actually being alerted
    - sentries can suddenly bottle and walk off the board even if they don’t know their mates have been taken OOA

    Only one of those (broken sentries) is a corner case - all the rest are common occurences.

    There’s more I’m forgetting too.
     
    TopsyKretts, Nucit, Alobar and 2 others like this.
  9. Valar

    Valar Juve

    That is a lot of bad things I’d never thought of before!
     
  10. Jacob Dryearth

    Jacob Dryearth Gang Hero

    Yeah I feel that. I tried to keep my deviations from the books concise to make sure people would actually read it. It still ended up being 2 pages of house rules & errata, and 3 pages of campaign events.

    Just played a sentry game Saturday, but the alarm was raised before any of the those strange edge casses popped up.
     
  11. Oh yeah.
    I agree completely.
    When I last played sentries me and my opponent agreed to use the old rules, which covers all of those situations.
     
  12. spafe

    spafe Executive Officer in charge of Hats
    Staff Member Necromunda Custodian Tribe Council Yak Comp 2nd Place

    That's not entirely accurate is it?
    Having played 2 sentry games recently:
    I can't speak to the getting shot off the top of my head, would need to check.
    Same with on fire
    weapons fired by sentries... erm, this isnt a common occurance, this is an impossible occurance, if the sentry is readied (therefore able to shoot his weapon), then the alarm is auto raised.
    sentries can open doors
    broken... once again, not had it come up but does sound like an overlooked rule to be fair
    I must admit, I hadn't read it, but I would assume bottle doesn't occur until alert?

    So yeah, not perfect, but not impossible.

    The placement of the relic... 6" is far enough to get it onto the other side of a wall, so clever placement of which tiles are o nthe edges means you can put the relic 3 squares in, and behind a wall, the attacker can only set up 2 squares in, therefore be on the other side of that wall.
     
  13. You can't measure distances through walls, so the relic can't be placed behind wall.

    Also, it's true that being shot, on fire, or otherwise attacked does not alert a sentry.
    It is also possible for a sentry to fire their weapon without the alarm being alert. If they spot an attacker they get to take an initiative test to fire immediately. Assuming they succeed, it's often possible for the attacker to get another action after a sentry has been alert before the alarm is raised (eg another fighter in a group activation). If they kill the alerted fighter the alarm will not be raised, and the gunfire will fall on death ears.
     
    TopsyKretts, spafe and enyoss like this.
  14. enyoss

    enyoss Gang Hero
    Tribe Council

    Sentries can't open doors - when activated they can only move a random distance. They don't perform actions, and therefore can't perform the Operate Door action, so can't open doors.

    Kiro covers the sentry gunfire situation.

    Seriously though, look at the rules again, it's all true I tell you :cry:.
     
    TopsyKretts and spafe like this.
  15. A sentry that begins or ends their move within 1" of a door may open it.
    So on that point Enyoss, you are wrong.
    But for the rest you are right.
    TBH I think the main reason they cut out the stuff about being shot is because they ran out of space on the page.
    I actually think that's a source of a lot of the stuff strangely missing from the new edition. They ran out of space and took it out thinking we're all psychic or something to know what they actually mean.
     
    enyoss and spafe like this.
  16. enyoss

    enyoss Gang Hero
    Tribe Council

    Can’t you only open a door using an operate door action? If not our group has been misplaying the door rules from day one :D.
     
  17. spafe

    spafe Executive Officer in charge of Hats
    Staff Member Necromunda Custodian Tribe Council Yak Comp 2nd Place

    wow, that's worrying. I will have to check over it. The doors though, they are covered for sure (as if the attacker gets control of a sentry they can open the locked doors using the sentries, which I did to get into where the relic was stored)

    I'd not relised the measuring for set ups and similar used the ZM measure around walls etc rule. I had thought it was a straight 6" from an edge. thats interesting... @DarkNwss , you might want to be aware of this
     
    DarkNwss likes this.
  18. spafe

    spafe Executive Officer in charge of Hats
    Staff Member Necromunda Custodian Tribe Council Yak Comp 2nd Place

    it's specifcally called out as sentries can at start of end of teir move if they are with 1" of a door (from memory, but along those lines for sure)
     
    enyoss and DarkNwss like this.
  19. DarkNwss

    DarkNwss Ganger

    I'm covering all angles, it doesn't sound like anyone has had much luck pulling an actual win with this one as defender so I'm using all the tricks I can find :p
     
  20. UnderhiveGangstar

    UnderhiveGangstar Gang Champion

    Sentries don't move a random distance anymore, its a single simple move action. They do face a random direction without moving if both player's D6 rolls are the same.
     
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